Swell Panik

Alex13 · Post by **Alex13** » Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:54 pm

Let us know how you go, I'm keen to find a light clear top for protecting veneer too.

skidesmond · Post by **skidesmond** » Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:17 am

I like the idea of a thin fiberglass over the top for protection. Seems like that would help prevent chipping of the veneer along the top edge.

Perhaps he varnishes afterwards for added protection?

Alex13 · Post by **Alex13** » Thu Sep 30, 2010 5:51 am

I'm sure I heard the word 'varnish' in there somewhere amongst the French babble.

doughboyshredder · Post by **doughboyshredder** » Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:29 am

MontuckyMadman wrote:You' the man. I was there last night but didn't find that light stuff.

Guess Ill give it a go.

fiberglass supply is a lot cheaper than fibreglast, and they have some 1.45 oz and .58 oz material also.

http://www.fiberglasssupply.com/Product ... brics.html

OnDeck · Post by **OnDeck** » Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:09 am

MontuckyMadman wrote:unless you put a crap load of vds in your skis damping will not be discernible. Its a sheer layer to prevent 2 very hard things from delamming.

...and i think it works well for that because it apparantly greatly increases bonding.

For what it's worth, i put a lot fo epoxy on the edges, then put my VDS on dry and give it a light skim of epoxy on top,. Seems to work OK, and it's a,oot easier to handle with rubber gloves.

falls · Post by **falls** » Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:34 pm

Yeah it's not uncommon to see vds go on dry in pro layup videos. I guess epoxy gets squeezed out the sides anyway.

Alex13 · Post by **Alex13** » Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:10 pm

OnDeck wrote:For what it's worth, i put a lot fo epoxy on the edges, then put my VDS on dry and give it a light skim of epoxy on top,. Seems to work OK, and it's a,oot easier to handle with rubber gloves.

I do the same.

doughboyshredder · Post by **doughboyshredder** » Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:14 pm

Alex13 wrote:
OnDeck wrote:For what it's worth, i put a lot fo epoxy on the edges, then put my VDS on dry and give it a light skim of epoxy on top,. Seems to work OK, and it's a,oot easier to handle with rubber gloves.
I do the same.

I do the opposite. I do not apply epoxy to the edges during layup. I leave a small bead on the teeth. Essentially I run the edge of the scraper that I use to apply epoxy on the inside of the teeth as a guide. Varying the angle leaves a small bead right on the teeth, but avoiding the gaps between the teeth and the edge. Then I lay the vds down in the middle of the board, flip it over, and run it through my fingers so that it has a very thin coat of epoxy on all surfaces. I then lay the vds over the dry edge.

Here is why. When I worked in production we did a bunch of tests and we determined that the squeeze out would flatten out that bead and fill the gaps that were left dry. If we filled the gaps the initial squeeze out pushed epoxy through the air gap between the edge and the base and resulted in a base with epoxy on it. Spreading the epoxy without covering the edges drastically reduces the epoxy that gets on the base.

There is a fine line though. If that bead is too small you can get dry spots and delaminations. Upper management hated the way we did it because of the risk of delam.

Only a few of the more experienced molding guys could get away with it. A lot of the boards we built with that technique had no epoxy on the base, and were very easy to finish.

MontuckyMadman · Post by **MontuckyMadman** » Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:59 pm

doughboyshredder wrote:
fiberglass supply is a lot cheaper than fibreglast, and they have some 1.45 oz and .58 oz material also.

http://www.fiberglasssupply.com/Product ... brics.html

doh now yo tell me.

I guess fiberghast gets 25 of my dollars. the real way to do it would be to get samples and test it. Ill still test the 2oz before on a ski but I would like to get the best protection at a transparent result.

Great info on the production tech.

doughboyshredder · Post by **doughboyshredder** » Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:29 am

MontuckyMadman wrote:
doughboyshredder wrote:
fiberglass supply is a lot cheaper than fibreglast, and they have some 1.45 oz and .58 oz material also.

http://www.fiberglasssupply.com/Product ... brics.html
doh now yo tell me. I guess fiberghast gets 25 of my dollars. the real way to do it would be to get samples and test it. Ill still test the 2oz before on a ski but I would like to get the best protection at a transparent result.

Great info on the production tech.

d'oh

I use fiberglast for info and fiberglass supply for purchases.

fiberglast is a rip off, but they have a great website. Fiberglass supply has a horrible website and great pricing. I haven't found better prices anywhere for small quantities.

skidesmond · Post by **skidesmond** » Fri Oct 01, 2010 3:41 am

DD- Thanks for the tip about VDS, epoxy, edge layup. I've been meticulous in spreading epoxy into the teeth of the edges. Then lay down the VDS dry and go over the VDS with epoxy. It would get messy because the VDS doesn't stay in place real well so I'd end repositioning the VDS.

I was a little surprised in the video how little epoxy he used on the base, a very thin skim coat. But looked like the FG was already coated when he did the layup. Always something new to learn.

doughboyshredder · Post by **doughboyshredder** » Fri Oct 01, 2010 6:55 am

skidesmond wrote:DD- Thanks for the tip about VDS, epoxy, edge layup. I've been meticulous in spreading epoxy into the teeth of the edges. Then lay down the VDS dry and go over the VDS with epoxy. It would get messy because the VDS doesn't stay in place real well so I'd end repositioning the VDS.

I was a little surprised in the video how little epoxy he used on the base, a very thin skim coat. But looked like the FG was already coated when he did the layup. Always something new to learn.

Yep,it doesn't take much epoxy on non porous surfaces. If your vds is floating around you definitely have more epoxy than necessary.

I use a grooved spreader on the base to leave an even amount of epoxy to impregnate the bottom of the next layer of glass. I like how swell guy impregnates the glass before putting it in to the layup, but that's time consuming. If you have a slow kick epoxy that's probably a great way to do it.

MontuckyMadman · Post by **MontuckyMadman** » Fri Oct 01, 2010 3:50 pm

After my first few pairs and with the super sap I use, I wet all my composite straight away before I get into the other layup. That way I just do skim on plastics and core.
I will continue to wet my edge teeth however as I am not keen on the potential for dry spots in that area. A little epoxy on the base is not a worry they need to be ground no matter what.
Thanks again DBS.

Maybe you could just tell us all your production tips now and save us some trouble? haha.

sammer · Post by **sammer** » Fri Oct 01, 2010 4:28 pm

Like montucky,
I've been wetting out all my glass 1st on a separate bench.
While its absorbing all the epoxy I put a thin coat on my base and core.
I also make sure I get good coverage between the edge teeth.
My technique is similar to doughboys using the "wake" from scraping my base to put a line of epoxy on the teeth then I work it in good.
I also wet my VDS then run it between my fingers to get most of it back off.

I hope this makes sense.

sam

Alex13 · Post by **Alex13** » Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:11 pm

I use a paintbrush for layup of all stages, it soaks up excess epoxy on the base/core etc and is simple to use. It also means I don't have to pour the epoxy on the base before scraping, I just use the brush so don't use more than necessary. I tried the scraper and I didn't like it as much, I found it easier to layup the glass with no wet spots with the brush as I could "prod" it with the bristles to force the epoxy right through.

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