Tip Spacer not bonding

ggardner90 · Post by **ggardner90** » Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:54 am

i am having a really hard time getting my tip spacer to bond well to the fiber glass. i am sanding then flame treating it

Any ideas

MontuckyMadman · Post by **MontuckyMadman** » Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:01 pm

You seem to be having trouble all around.
The tip spacer should be already abraded.
How are you pressing and what epoxy are you using?

twizzstyle · Post by **twizzstyle** » Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:02 pm

Bummer

I've never had a problem with tip spacer.

I'll ask the stupid questions - even though it sounds like you're doing everything right, and know what you're doing... how long prior to layup are you doing the sanding/flaming? Presumably its not like weeks (although even then I've done skis where I didn't touch the tip spacer, which came abraided, it sat for many weeks, and had no issues bonding)

Could it be your epoxy? What kind are you using? How accurately are you measuring it?

projectskis · Post by **projectskis** » Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:40 pm

I too have never had issues bonding with tip spacer...even on the first pairs of skis I made before I started flame treating. Is it just a little delam? If it is that is fairly common and could be for several reasons.

Anyway one other idea is if you cleaned it with some chemical?
Good Luck with the trouble shooting!

Also, you still looking for sidewall? I ended up having 4 strips extra if you wanna pay shipping ill hook it up. You know a Joe Lohr by chance?

ggardner90 · Post by **ggardner90** » Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:58 pm

joe lohr is my roomate how do u know him???????

and to answer your question montukey, i am using entropy cpm, i am using calibrated pumps to measure my epoxy, and i am being really carefull. should i get a scale and do it by weight to be more accurate. i am am flame treating the side wall and tip spacer no more than an hour before layup. i stopped using any sot of solvent

i have been storing my materials and epoxy in the garage which fluctuates in temperature alot.

has anyone else used entropy epoxies??

ggardner90 · Post by **ggardner90** » Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:13 pm

also when i glued up some sidewalls today i did the water droplet test on them and the water spread out and seeped into the part i flamed and beeded on the part i did not. so i think i am flaming right.

do you think it could be the pumps i am using not giving me an accurate measurement of epoxy to hardener

MontuckyMadman · Post by **MontuckyMadman** » Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:37 pm

I also use the cpm. I suggest you weigh the mixture.
are you cooking the epoxy long enough? Are you post curing before cutting the flash?

ggardner90 · Post by **ggardner90** » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:16 pm

i talked to the guy at entropy and he said that i would be fine to cut the flash after it cools. i usually wait about an hour or 2 to let is cool then cut the flash

i will get a scale tomorrow

OAC · Post by **OAC** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:36 am

I guess you know the difference between flame treatment and "burn" treatment. You only want to get rid of the "greasy" surface. If you burn the surface, you will have the opposite - no bonding.

I've done both, so If it worth something it's my 2c

I use ABS 2mm and 3mm

twizzstyle · Post by **twizzstyle** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:48 am

I've used entropy for a couple of pairs now with no issue, just ordered some more too. I use a harbor freight digital scale whenever I'm mixing epoxy.

ggardner90 · Post by **ggardner90** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:11 am

do you think that storing my materials in the garage is contributing to all my problems, because the temperature is fluctuating where do you guys keep your stuff

twizzstyle · Post by **twizzstyle** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:34 am

My garage is insulated (and heated now! whooo!), but I wouldn't think that's your problem. My stuff can get pretty dirty too, but I clean it and dry it well, and re-flame.

Dr. Delam · Post by **Dr. Delam** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:14 pm

Not sure about the Entropy but QCM recommended to me to keep it at room temp. Mine stays in a dark closet inside the house. I only turn on the heat in my garage when I am working. All my materials stay in there but it usually doesn't get below 45-50.

I doubt that is the issue though.

I never reflame or abrade my spacer and never had a problem. I just keep it wrapped up in plastic in a box.

Bloefeld?

ggardner90 · Post by **ggardner90** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:12 pm

i think i may not have cooked my skis long enough, i just did a test with base,fg,tip spacer, fg topsheet and i watched the temp climb new thermocouple and watched the temp climb and it was a lot slower than i was expecting so i will be adjusting where i put the thermocouple,

also i talked with the entropy guys, and he was thinking the since there was such wide spread failure it must have been a bad cure, and he brought up the idea that my compressor, which is old and i neglect, could be putting a little bit of oil on my material. so i will try not using my compressed air and just a moist paper towel to clean prior to lay up. hope all goes well tonight, ill keep u all posted

falls · Post by **falls** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:29 pm

Always mix your epoxy by weight. get a good digital scale to help you with this.
Most people place their thermocouple at the very centre of their cassette.
Good luck with your next pair.

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Tip Spacer not bonding

Tip Spacer not bonding