Hi everybody,
I want to buy new base/edge grinder from wintersteiger. I`m looking for an optimal solution which is giving me perfect base and edge finishing. So I`m interested in the following models:
Sigma SBI (Combined belt and stone grinder) - wintersteiger.at/en/Sports/Machines/New-Machines/Base-grinding/18-Sigma-SBI
Sigma ECO (the simplest wintersteiger belt grinder + side edge griniding unit) - wintersteiger.at/en/Sports/Machines/New-Machines/Base-grinding/274-Sigma-Eco
Trim B (edge grinder) - wintersteiger.at/en/Sports/Machines/New-Machines/Edge-grinding/27-Trim-B
Can I take just Sigma ECO and to do all the job with it (skipping the stone grind)? Or I need additional stone grinding + special separate machine for edge grinding? The most important for me is the final boards quality, but I don`t want to spend my money for something let`s say "luxury"(e.g. touch screen, etc... )
I`ll be glad to know your opinion. If you can suggest some better machines, please let me know.
Thanks
Dimitar
Wintersteiger - advice
Moderators: Head Monkey, kelvin, bigKam, skidesmond, chrismp
Generally speaking Wintersteiger is one of the most expensive manufacturers for ski tuning equipment. I ran into a smaller german company that produces pretty much the same stuff just cheaper http://www.products-4u.de/catalog/grindmaster.php
What you want is a combined stone/belt grinder with a side edge grinder. A machine like this one http://www.products-4u.de/catalog/index.php?cPath=52_56 that also grinds the base edge is needed in case you want to bevel the base side of the edges.
What you want is a combined stone/belt grinder with a side edge grinder. A machine like this one http://www.products-4u.de/catalog/index.php?cPath=52_56 that also grinds the base edge is needed in case you want to bevel the base side of the edges.
I have a Wintersteiger Micro 80 which is a combination belt and stone grinder. It's a great machine with adjustable grinding patterns. I bought mine used directly from Wintersteiger. When they re-sell used machines, they refurbish the entire unit. Mine is 13years old, but it looks and functions like a new one. Plenty of other great machines out there, but if you go with a Wintersteiger, I'm sure you'll be happy. I don't have the side edge grinder, but I feel like that is more of a luxury than a necessity. Use a router to trim your sidewalls, and finish the skis with a good old fashioned hand filing. In order to be self sufficient building skis, you'll need a grinder. It's not always easy to find shops who want to grind new skis out of the press.
How many tunes do you plan on doing a season? This will dictate what your equipment needs are.
Here in north america there is a good market to buy and sell used machines, I don't know what the market is like in east europe, but I'm sure you can find good used equipment. It can be hard to find, but if you are not in a rush there should be some killer deals !!
As far as the best finish on snowboards - a stone grind is necessary. Problem with stone grinding snowboards is that if they are used(or new??), they aren't flat, and it's difficult to produce a premium finish on a wide wonky board.
There is a belt by 3m called trizact that apparantly produces a superior finish over regular sand belts, but I have not used it. Wintersteiger has it available.
Here is a grind I did on my board recently for a charity comp I entered - you can see (barely) that there is no structure near the edges due to the board being slightly convex, which is typical for used boards.
Here in north america there is a good market to buy and sell used machines, I don't know what the market is like in east europe, but I'm sure you can find good used equipment. It can be hard to find, but if you are not in a rush there should be some killer deals !!
As far as the best finish on snowboards - a stone grind is necessary. Problem with stone grinding snowboards is that if they are used(or new??), they aren't flat, and it's difficult to produce a premium finish on a wide wonky board.
There is a belt by 3m called trizact that apparantly produces a superior finish over regular sand belts, but I have not used it. Wintersteiger has it available.
Here is a grind I did on my board recently for a charity comp I entered - you can see (barely) that there is no structure near the edges due to the board being slightly convex, which is typical for used boards.
The board in the pic above was processed with a stone grinder. But to answer your question I would start with a couple of passes at low belt speed on 80 grit, then a couple on 120, and a handful on 150 or 180. You just have to be careful base sanding as its very possible to relieve the edge (base higher than edge) through excessive grinding. Use a true bar to determine the overall flatness of the ski being tuned.
This is a pic of a base high ski before grinding. The edges had been excessively filed by hand. Ideally you want a flat profile.
This is after final stone grinding, along with base edge bevel set to .5 degrees.
This is a pic of a base high ski before grinding. The edges had been excessively filed by hand. Ideally you want a flat profile.
This is after final stone grinding, along with base edge bevel set to .5 degrees.
Hi,
as chenzo wrote the problem with snowboards is that they usually aren't really flat, even if they are new. So if you want to have them perfectly flat, you have to take away a lot of material. Just get something with a really straight edge so you can measure how flat the boards are (as shown in the pics), and you will see that hardly any board is close to being really flat.
A stone grind only works well if the board/ski is really flat, as the stone is hard. The belt grinder is more tolerant regarding flatness, because there is a rubber roll under the belt.
What a lot of services do is that they dont go for the stone grind with snowboards, but just stay on the beltgrinder and use a finish belt. Like this you get an even structure all over the base even if the board is not 100% flat.
So if you plan to only grind snowboards, I'd first check how flat they are - if they have more than some 1/10mm unevenness, there is litte sense in trying to stonegrind them as you'd have to grind away half of the base to get good results. So if thats the case, forget about the stone and go for a good belt grinder.
If your boards are quite flat or you plan to also service skis, go for a belt/stone combi - the finish a good stone structure does is superior to anything a belt grind can give you.
And yes, the 3m Trizact do a very nice and even finish. What I felt when using them was that they produce more heat than normal belts. So take care of cooling when using them ;)
as chenzo wrote the problem with snowboards is that they usually aren't really flat, even if they are new. So if you want to have them perfectly flat, you have to take away a lot of material. Just get something with a really straight edge so you can measure how flat the boards are (as shown in the pics), and you will see that hardly any board is close to being really flat.
A stone grind only works well if the board/ski is really flat, as the stone is hard. The belt grinder is more tolerant regarding flatness, because there is a rubber roll under the belt.
What a lot of services do is that they dont go for the stone grind with snowboards, but just stay on the beltgrinder and use a finish belt. Like this you get an even structure all over the base even if the board is not 100% flat.
So if you plan to only grind snowboards, I'd first check how flat they are - if they have more than some 1/10mm unevenness, there is litte sense in trying to stonegrind them as you'd have to grind away half of the base to get good results. So if thats the case, forget about the stone and go for a good belt grinder.
If your boards are quite flat or you plan to also service skis, go for a belt/stone combi - the finish a good stone structure does is superior to anything a belt grind can give you.
And yes, the 3m Trizact do a very nice and even finish. What I felt when using them was that they produce more heat than normal belts. So take care of cooling when using them ;)
Yes I do, but I prefer others. I find that alu ox are very durable and last a long time, but they tend to leave a hairy finish. I mostly use stone grinders for finishing, although I may prep them with a belt first.gozaimaas wrote:Thanks chenzo.
Do you use aluminium oxide belts?
A nice belt to have for deburring, defuzzing and can be used for waxing - is the scotchbrite belt. They tend to be expensive though.
For grinding I like the blue zircon belts the best, a good balance between durability and finish.
scotchbrite belt
http://www.svst.com/Categories3.aspx?Ca ... 5a855795fc
other belts
http://www.svst.com/svst1.aspx?Category ... 8e1c320e06
I'm sure in your country you could find an abrasive supplier and save some coin.
@pmg - if you get a chance, could you post a pic of trizact finished board?
And I'm from there.Hi,
no I dont have a pic of a board finished with Trizact. Just know the Trizacts from finishing metal. They leave a very even surface without being too agressive.
Regarding the surface of Trizact belts,I doubt they will do a hairy finish. (Though I only used very fine ones, about P600)
The hairy finish with alu oxide belts comes mainly from the purpose they are made for: They are usually made for grinding soft materials like wood, rubber etc. Thats why they have - regarding the grain/glue ratio on the belt - more grain. This makes them more agressive as more grain is showing on top of the belt.
Zirkon belts are usually used for grinding hard materials like steel. For this purpose, they need more glue around the grains, otherwise the grains would break off very quick. (Just try to grind steel with normal wood belt - it becomes dull extremely fast). Thats why zirkon belts are less agressive, thus making a less hairy finish.
Of course, there are much more special purposes, some belts made for steel and wood representing a mixture of the two types above.
no I dont have a pic of a board finished with Trizact. Just know the Trizacts from finishing metal. They leave a very even surface without being too agressive.
Regarding the surface of Trizact belts,I doubt they will do a hairy finish. (Though I only used very fine ones, about P600)
The hairy finish with alu oxide belts comes mainly from the purpose they are made for: They are usually made for grinding soft materials like wood, rubber etc. Thats why they have - regarding the grain/glue ratio on the belt - more grain. This makes them more agressive as more grain is showing on top of the belt.
Zirkon belts are usually used for grinding hard materials like steel. For this purpose, they need more glue around the grains, otherwise the grains would break off very quick. (Just try to grind steel with normal wood belt - it becomes dull extremely fast). Thats why zirkon belts are less agressive, thus making a less hairy finish.
Of course, there are much more special purposes, some belts made for steel and wood representing a mixture of the two types above.