Setback sidecut

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mammuth
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Setback sidecut

Post by mammuth » Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:51 am

How is your experience on Sidecut setback? I did see some skis with setback around 10cm behind binding center, seems awkward to me but maybe you get a more surfy feel?

Talking about fat powder skis....
Tom

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Dr. Delam
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Re: Setback sidecut

Post by Dr. Delam » Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:30 pm

I made a pair of fatties and come think about it I am not so sure why I set the sidecut back in the first place. Maybe I was focused on dimensions but it turns out I don't like it at all. I think I might have been trying to achieve a certain taper from tip to tail, putting the narrowest part of the ski about 10 cm behind boot center. Anyways, the skis are not versatile at all. They feel like they need to be in really good untracked powder and get up to quite a bit of speed to be responsive. It could be other contributing factors but this is the only pair I have made this way and the only pair that feel this way. I ended up remounting them back some and they feel at least a bit more skiable. My 2 cents.

mammuth
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Re: Setback sidecut

Post by mammuth » Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:05 am

Yeah i had always the same thinking. But if you look at the Salomon QST and maybe also the Dupraz they do it. There must be a reason ;) Hmmm...


Did you do a symmetrical or asymmetrical (multi radius) sidecut on your pairs?
Tom

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Dr. Delam
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Re: Setback sidecut

Post by Dr. Delam » Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:16 pm

I has been awhile since I have done more than a single radius sidecut. I have kept it simple trying to minimize creating more garage ornaments. Single radius are more predictable but combination sidecuts definitely work. They just require a little more experimentation. I have skied some amazing multi radius sidecut skis. Now that you have got me thinking about it I think I am going to try a combi for a future pair. I think it is a better approach than sidecut setback.

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vinman
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Re: Setback sidecut

Post by vinman » Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:15 am

I think more about what percentage of the ski is the waist placed. For freeride skis I usually use ~56% when measured from the tip. This seems to give my skis a good balance of turn initiation while maintaining float so you don't feel like you might go over the front of the ski.

For a front side carver/all mountain ski I might change this a little but not too much. Maybe 55% or 55.5%.

This would be the true waist of the ski. This is where I would place the boot sole center mark and where I would also place the height of the camber in the mold.

For my designs this seems to work pretty well.
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mammuth
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Re: Setback sidecut

Post by mammuth » Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:44 am

I do multi radi sidecuts on most on my boards. I like it a lot. Waist position is also no big deal (now), the board here was a good learning source when i started some years ago.

Im just curious about this sidecut setback thing, since some ski seems to have that feature. But till now i didnt find a logical explanation, except maybe the ski gets more surfy feeling. But on the other hand in my logic it would be a little bit awkward on hard stuff. Hmmm.
Tom

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Re: Setback sidecut

Post by gav wa » Tue May 07, 2019 1:13 am

I've done it quite a few times on boards, swallowtail boards allow you to do it without ending up with a board full of tail. It totally changes to style of riding you need to get the most from the board and I very rarely suggest it on a board I'm building for other people.
You need to power into the board more, bit you get something unique back from it, I don't think it would be an easy thing to get right in a ski though.
Move a set of bindings forward of center 30mm and go try it, see how it feels.

mammuth
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Re: Setback sidecut

Post by mammuth » Wed May 08, 2019 8:30 am

Youre talking about multi radius or sidecut setback?
Tom

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Re: Setback sidecut

Post by Cadman » Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:56 am

vinman wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:15 am
I think more about what percentage of the ski is the waist placed. For freeride skis I usually use ~56% when measured from the tip. This seems to give my skis a good balance of turn initiation while maintaining float so you don't feel like you might go over the front of the ski.

For a front side carver/all mountain ski I might change this a little but not too much. Maybe 55% or 55.5%.

This would be the true waist of the ski. This is where I would place the boot sole center mark and where I would also place the height of the camber in the mold.

For my designs this seems to work pretty well.
Hi, Vinman
I have struggled with this for along time and I waffled back and forth using the percentages of the effective edge or the actual running surface. I agree with your percentages. Since we are all designing skis with longer tip than tails, it seems that using the full length of the ski would not be appropriate. The old school design was that the ball of the foot was on the mid running surface for GS skis and 1cm ahead of the MRS on Slalom skis. The waist was generally close or right on the waist of the ski. Interestingly enough I took a Brannock device ( the tool they measure your shoe size with in the shoe store) and came up with a spreadsheet that showed the distance from the center of your foot and the ball of your foot. I was surprised to find out that between size 5-1/2 and 12, the difference in distance from center to the ball was not much more than 1 cm. However, changing the position on your ski by a couple of millimeters makes for a big change in the ski behavior. If you don't believe that, try some skis that you can move the toe and heal in small increments.
What do you think?

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