Ski Builders Forum

looks great

Is anyone staining or dying their veneer before laying up?

I've used Rit water based dye to color some veneer for some inlays. Dint use the vinegar based stuff. Vinegar will neutralized the chemical reactions in your epoxy.

After dyeing the veneer (small inlays) I cooked it in the microwave for a few seconds to dry it. Worked ok.

I built this for a mate, he had the bamboo veneer printed on.

How did you print on the venneer?

I wasnt there but as far as I know it was no different to printing on paper. It was a professional printer

Has anyone had any experiences with their mold release affecting their finish?

I'm getting ready to varnish my top sheet's (cherry veneer) but the they have some of the wax we used as a mold release on the top. I am a little hesitant to use a chemical to remove the wax as I'm afraid it will negatively affect the epoxy. I was thinking of wet sanding the veneer but thought I would check to see if anyone had any experiences first.

No experience wiyh that sorry. I dont use any mold release, just baking paper

Lot's of good information here so I thought I would post my experience so far. I used a Cherry Veneer for this set of skis (Non-paper backed). We wet out the veneer during the layup to ensure a nice even coating of epoxy through the veneer (no blotchy, dry spots). The top of the cassette was waxed with floor wax as a mold release.
Once out of the press and cured for a few days I lightly wet sanded my top sheet with 220 grit to smooth out a few spots and remove any traces of wax. I then applied two coats of Spar Varnish for water and UV protection. The tips still need to be sanded to final shape but I'll get that done when I do the base grind. Overall I'm happy with the finish and will see how it holds up.

What? Like this?

moosfinal038 by Huck Pitueee, on Flickr

Richuk wrote:I'm interested in why you guys don't remove epoxy. Epoxy is brittle and will yellow over time. Belt sanders over 'random' orbital sanders? Has anyone tested the urethane used to protect bowling lanes - might be a good starting point?

Epoxy creates a nice base layer to paint to, almost a nice gel coat and means that we have to use less urethane to get the same finish.

Also what you described seems to be UV effects, spar urethane and other urethanes for outdoor have UV blockers.

I think you're looking for some 2 part top coats (see head monkeys threads)

I've done some coupon tests with the cheapo crown duravision on top. Looks sexy.

Also wouldnt use a sander pretty much at any step. The 3M line has some nice gentle scotchbrite style pads that do wonders. K that's all i got.

JS - thanks, but my comments were just a gentle nudge towards a group of products that offer a solution to the central issue i.e. edge strike. I don't discount the product that HeadMonkey uses, I just don't see it as relevant to this particular problem.

As you will appreciate, out of the mold, the epoxy you see is just sitting on the surface. It has penetrated the pores of the veneer, but not the cells. The structural integritity of the veneer is largely unchanged. When you approximate and edge strike, the epoxy will fracture and the wood veneer is likely to splinter and fall away. Clearly this impacts the laminate, so you might as well call it a fail, as it is now a site for water ingress. Adding a few coats of spar varnish, circa 250 mic thick, doesn't change that.

Putting aside products like compreg or similar, the options narrow towards finding a product that alters the physical properties of the veneer, such that it is tough enough, or find a product that offers added protection to the veneer/upper laminate i.e. doubling the thickness of the topsheet using a product that is proven to be impact resistent.

The products I have pointed at appear, IMHO, to offer a potential solution to the issue of edge strike, as per the physical/mechanical properties data sheets. The results are much improved, almost eliminated, if the veneer is chamfered as it approaches the edge, circa 0.1mm. These products can be used safely and there are even 'no voc' solutions on the market.

Huck ... anytime you what to post a master class on what materials you use and how you finish, I'm sure you'd find an audience )

Got it, you're talking about impact resistance, and you have my attention!

And your suggesting using products like these?: http://www.uspoly.com/laneappf.html Any idea what these actually are? Uralane = urethane based? Would we still need a UV protective layer on top?

I'm not (yet) convinced that the epoxy doesn't create a nice matrix with the wood. I've seen it come up through the veneer (although maybe just through microcracks not not through cells?) Arbor claims their veneer sheets get penetrated fully and become part of their matrix...buuut people claim a lot of things...

Have you tried anything like this yet? I'd be up for trying something different.

I'm talking about the fact that a plastic topsheet serves a purpose, so its important to factor these issues into the mix.

My opinions are based on trials.

I would start will the company I suggested in the original post - hold on, I didn't include the link, brb. You'll have some sense on the type of impacts their product is design to protect against, so the data should make sense. Ask for a few samples and see what you like and how it performs before narrowing the research. If ocst becomes an issue, branch out into the industrial floor coatings.

Urethane coatings tend not to need UV inhibitors. I've just looked at your journal, cool board!!! I wouldn't worry about adding UV inhibitors, urethane and the ink will be enough.

Epoxy doesn't penetrate the cells, research compreg, impreg, staypack and the like, or take a cross-section of your work and put it under a micro-scope.

The term matrix denotes the idea that the combination of two or more materials with differing physical properties to produces a single material with superior, but different properties. Applying the term in the context of a wood veneer is not wrong, but equally the wood veneer is not a refined product. I believe Arbor are using a micro veneer, circa 0.2mm thick. It maybe be a constituant member of the matrix, but it has little impact.