Newcomer's first builds
Moderators: Head Monkey, kelvin, bigKam, skidesmond, chrismp
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skidesmond
- Posts: 2337
- Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 3:26 pm
- Location: Western Mass, USA
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Well, we took it out on the slopes this past weekend. We did a very dirty clean up of the base, beveled the sidewalls, oiled the wood, waxed the base, and off we went.
The overall shape feels right, and the only real glaring thing was the overall thickness/stiffness. It was a lot of work to carve, but damn...on groomed trails that thing races. I've never had so much confidence on an edge. Still, i think some changes are in order... gonna push it a little.
1-thinner core profile (5mm in middle, 1mm on the ends) (1mm thinner than current)
2- move from 22oz with CF to 19oz no CF
3- heavy roller on the glass to squish it a bit
4- Fix the core scaling to solve those silly tip spacers
5- Secure base to template before cutting, and before edge bending and glue on (lots of good stuff in here on that one)
6-For the two guide inserts, bore out the clearance holes in the core to reduce interference and make sure they're all the way in during the layup
7- Use multiple cups during layup...fill them with resin and add hardener as needed
Guys, thanks so much for the tips and support!! Much appreciated!
The overall shape feels right, and the only real glaring thing was the overall thickness/stiffness. It was a lot of work to carve, but damn...on groomed trails that thing races. I've never had so much confidence on an edge. Still, i think some changes are in order... gonna push it a little.
1-thinner core profile (5mm in middle, 1mm on the ends) (1mm thinner than current)
2- move from 22oz with CF to 19oz no CF
3- heavy roller on the glass to squish it a bit
4- Fix the core scaling to solve those silly tip spacers
5- Secure base to template before cutting, and before edge bending and glue on (lots of good stuff in here on that one)
6-For the two guide inserts, bore out the clearance holes in the core to reduce interference and make sure they're all the way in during the layup
7- Use multiple cups during layup...fill them with resin and add hardener as needed
Guys, thanks so much for the tips and support!! Much appreciated!
it's really weird that your board is so stiff! my first board had a 5.5mm fir core tapering down to 2mm and 22 oz triax (56% of the fibers in the 0° direction) and it was a noodle! no carbon though.
i've switched woods for my cores since then (now using paulownia with two beech stringers), but still 6.5mm center thickness (platform that extends slightly under the binding area) tapering to 2mm gives me medium stiffness. i use some 6oz 2cm wide carbon stingers starting from the binding area going to the contact points.
what weight is your carbon?
i've switched woods for my cores since then (now using paulownia with two beech stringers), but still 6.5mm center thickness (platform that extends slightly under the binding area) tapering to 2mm gives me medium stiffness. i use some 6oz 2cm wide carbon stingers starting from the binding area going to the contact points.
what weight is your carbon?
Dtrain- Noted. Maybe ill just bring it down to 2mm even for starters and the middle to 5 or 5.5. That should actually be a significant change on its own
Also note that this is a wide foot board, 300mm wide at nose and tail with an 8m radius. The intent is for skinny guys with big feet.
I bought some glass from Action Sports, with the carbon already in there, not sure on the weight. My core is 100% poplar and there was a huge increase in stiffness going from the core to the finished product. It's not just the CF though. It is stiff in all directions. One thing about this process that i didn't realize is that the vacuum bag doesn't compress the glass all that much on its own, so my glass layers are essentially 1mm thick each. Now, I would suspect that there is some weaknesses associated with this, but it also adds to the overall thickness which is a huge lever in terms of stiffness, says the engineering nerd to the builders forum.
Given that this is the stiffest board I've ever seen, I feel like i got some cushion going in the other direction. We'll see...
Also note that this is a wide foot board, 300mm wide at nose and tail with an 8m radius. The intent is for skinny guys with big feet.
I bought some glass from Action Sports, with the carbon already in there, not sure on the weight. My core is 100% poplar and there was a huge increase in stiffness going from the core to the finished product. It's not just the CF though. It is stiff in all directions. One thing about this process that i didn't realize is that the vacuum bag doesn't compress the glass all that much on its own, so my glass layers are essentially 1mm thick each. Now, I would suspect that there is some weaknesses associated with this, but it also adds to the overall thickness which is a huge lever in terms of stiffness, says the engineering nerd to the builders forum.
Given that this is the stiffest board I've ever seen, I feel like i got some cushion going in the other direction. We'll see...
Pretty sure that glass with the carbon is 24oz.
To get a flat base you really need to match tip spacer thickness to the core thickness in the tip/tail.
Try 19oz glass with out the carbon and a slightly thinner core underfoot. But I would not reduce it too much if you do go for the 19oz glass or else you might end up with a noodle.
To get a flat base you really need to match tip spacer thickness to the core thickness in the tip/tail.
Try 19oz glass with out the carbon and a slightly thinner core underfoot. But I would not reduce it too much if you do go for the 19oz glass or else you might end up with a noodle.
Fighting gravity on a daily basis
www.Whiteroomcustomskis.com
www.Whiteroomcustomskis.com
Alright! Time for an update. We finished up the second board.
2.1mm on the ends, 5.5mm in the center. Tolerance of...say... well its a prototype so we don't worry about that
Went with a 19ox triax with no carbon as well
Carpet taped the base down to the template and left it attached until layup. Flamed it on there and everything. No wrinkles!
Cut bigger holes out around the guide inserts. One of them came out perfectly flat, the other still had a bit of a bump. I've been doing research here. I think maybe we're getting glass jammed in the hole and just not compressing it or cleaning it out right with the knife. I've got a few hours of reading up on this via different threads. More to come on this one over the next few builds. I'm going to experiment with some different methods you guys have shared.
So...it still wasn't good enough to take in for a base grind, but we've been shredding the piss out of it for the past month. New England was blessed with several feet of snow this past month, so there was no shortage of weekends to ride. It did cut down on our building time though.
Board feels incredible. Nice pop, good flex, good sidecuts. Shreds bumps and sketchy terrain in the woods amazingly. There is a bit of nose chatter at high speed on the groomers. Love it so much, we're going to build a couple more and try to get our process down.
We are hooked! I see a press build in our future!
Pics to follow
2.1mm on the ends, 5.5mm in the center. Tolerance of...say... well its a prototype so we don't worry about that
Went with a 19ox triax with no carbon as well
Carpet taped the base down to the template and left it attached until layup. Flamed it on there and everything. No wrinkles!
Cut bigger holes out around the guide inserts. One of them came out perfectly flat, the other still had a bit of a bump. I've been doing research here. I think maybe we're getting glass jammed in the hole and just not compressing it or cleaning it out right with the knife. I've got a few hours of reading up on this via different threads. More to come on this one over the next few builds. I'm going to experiment with some different methods you guys have shared.
So...it still wasn't good enough to take in for a base grind, but we've been shredding the piss out of it for the past month. New England was blessed with several feet of snow this past month, so there was no shortage of weekends to ride. It did cut down on our building time though.
Board feels incredible. Nice pop, good flex, good sidecuts. Shreds bumps and sketchy terrain in the woods amazingly. There is a bit of nose chatter at high speed on the groomers. Love it so much, we're going to build a couple more and try to get our process down.
We are hooked! I see a press build in our future!
Pics to follow
Last edited by JSquare on Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
We didn't... we had a pile of changes already in the mix so we opted not address that just yet. I actually haven't done my homework on this topic yet. I'm not sure whether the idea is to get all the air pockets out of the resin/glass and use a roller on the glass layer, or whether its just to apply some extra pressure to compress the glass and squeeze epoxy out the sides. If its the latter, i might opt for a rolling pin. If the former, then I'd pick up a roller from the fiberglass supplier... I'm afraid I'm next to useless on this subject at the moment. Maybe others will contribute on this topic. I would be game to try some suggestions here.gaber6 wrote:Did you press down on the top with a roller on the new board?
-g
For the third board, we kept the design from the previous and tweaked our process a bit. We DSTd the base down to our mold, used medipore tape as our tip spacer tape to hold it nice and flush to the core, counterbored our inserts (hadn't done this yet), and ditched the 2 inserts as alignment technique.
Instead, we dstd some rounded blocks to the mold with a reasonably snug fit with the core. We trimmed the glass back a touch around that area, and the blocks ended up coming up with the board. Everything seemed to sit okay. We'll get a better look once we saw it .out. So far, we're pretty happy for the absence of bumps, wrinkles and dents... I'm sure we'll find some surprises and "whoopsies" as we finish it.
Feel free poke and prod at the pics...we're in the learning phase and we love the input
Tail
Nose
Instead, we dstd some rounded blocks to the mold with a reasonably snug fit with the core. We trimmed the glass back a touch around that area, and the blocks ended up coming up with the board. Everything seemed to sit okay. We'll get a better look once we saw it .out. So far, we're pretty happy for the absence of bumps, wrinkles and dents... I'm sure we'll find some surprises and "whoopsies" as we finish it.
Feel free poke and prod at the pics...we're in the learning phase and we love the input
Tail
Nose
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twizzstyle
- Posts: 2204
- Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:25 pm
- Location: Kenmore, Wa USA
Sounds like you're really starting to dial in your process. Everybody here does things a little bit differently, but overtime you'll perfect your own process and it'll work great. That's the point of the first few builds it seems. That board looks pretty good at a first glance!
The only thing I can see is the pooled up epoxy on the side of the tips, right where the sidecut turns the corner onto the tip. Looks like the base wasn't pressed down into the mold all the way, won't be able to grind that flat (shouldn't really effect anything though? I don't know how snowboards work though )
Also that seems like a ton of tape on the base (DST = double sided tape?). If it's just there to keep things from shifting, why not just do a few small pieces?
The only thing I can see is the pooled up epoxy on the side of the tips, right where the sidecut turns the corner onto the tip. Looks like the base wasn't pressed down into the mold all the way, won't be able to grind that flat (shouldn't really effect anything though? I don't know how snowboards work though
)Also that seems like a ton of tape on the base (DST = double sided tape?). If it's just there to keep things from shifting, why not just do a few small pieces?
Thanks twizz. We're dialing...hopefully its paying off-
This is our first run with double sticky tape (DST) . For the past two builds we used spray adhesive on the base to hold it flat (to keep the epoxy out). Now that I look at it, we have have gone a little overboard.
As for your comments on the epoxy bleeding... can you share a bit more of that? Any chance the epoxy is bleeding through my base-edge seam? Why won't it grind off?
This is our first run with double sticky tape (DST) . For the past two builds we used spray adhesive on the base to hold it flat (to keep the epoxy out). Now that I look at it, we have have gone a little overboard.
As for your comments on the epoxy bleeding... can you share a bit more of that? Any chance the epoxy is bleeding through my base-edge seam? Why won't it grind off?