i have always preferred a stiff ski. so my most recent personal ski is the stiffest ski i have built. bamboo, about 12 mm underfoot and 5mm in the tip and tail pre-pressing. with 20 ounce tri-axe. i threw some dynafits on them. rocker tip, 85mm underfoot, 165cm length, a nice short radius, heavy side cut. perfect for groomers and glaciers. i modeled them after a giant slalom ski except with a rocker tip.
anyways i was thoroughly enjoying them, crazy fun ski. but i noticed the next day that i was extremely sore. like the extreme stiffness of the ski was transferring more force to my legs and really tore up my legs.
any thoughts? are stiffer skis harder on the body? maybe i am just a pussy?
are stiffer skis harder on the body?
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petemorgan(pmoskico)
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petemorgan(pmoskico)
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alright alright alright
i thought the skis performed amazing all around. groomers, killed it. the crud, loved it. and the freshie fresh, good to go too. though i think the heavy side cut/small radius was working a little against me in the untouched stuff.
i think a stiff rocker ski is a good way to go. the ski is already in the banana shape that you want, so no need to be flexing much. i never liked a soft rocker ski like the K2 hell-bent which when the rocker tip would hit some fluff, it would flex back 8 inches, losing allll of your power. a stiff rocker that doesnt flex back doesnt give a shit. f...ing honey badger skis.
(those 12mm and 5mm dimensions are exaggerated, i dont remember off the top of my head what they were, but needless to say they are some stiff mothas)
http://precisionmotions.wordpress.com/s ... rousel-100
http://precisionmotions.wordpress.com/s ... arousel-99
http://precisionmotions.wordpress.com/s ... rousel-101
i thought the skis performed amazing all around. groomers, killed it. the crud, loved it. and the freshie fresh, good to go too. though i think the heavy side cut/small radius was working a little against me in the untouched stuff.
i think a stiff rocker ski is a good way to go. the ski is already in the banana shape that you want, so no need to be flexing much. i never liked a soft rocker ski like the K2 hell-bent which when the rocker tip would hit some fluff, it would flex back 8 inches, losing allll of your power. a stiff rocker that doesnt flex back doesnt give a shit. f...ing honey badger skis.
(those 12mm and 5mm dimensions are exaggerated, i dont remember off the top of my head what they were, but needless to say they are some stiff mothas)
http://precisionmotions.wordpress.com/s ... rousel-100
http://precisionmotions.wordpress.com/s ... arousel-99
http://precisionmotions.wordpress.com/s ... rousel-101
Maybe...
Newton's third law: For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
So with a stiff or soft ski your body is still seeing the same force. However with a stiffer ski the force is applied at a great rate, while the softer ski will transfer the force through the system at a slow rate.
To summarize: you're not seeing more force, you're seeing the force faster.
So you can slow down or stop complaining!
Newton's third law: For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
So with a stiff or soft ski your body is still seeing the same force. However with a stiffer ski the force is applied at a great rate, while the softer ski will transfer the force through the system at a slow rate.
To summarize: you're not seeing more force, you're seeing the force faster.
So you can slow down or stop complaining!
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skidesmond
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Nice line-up of skis. On the ebony skis, it's all rocker, hardly any tip bend like you see in a typical ski. Now I see how you can have a 5mm tip.petemorgan(pmoskico) wrote:alright alright alright
i thought the skis performed amazing all around. groomers, killed it. the crud, loved it. and the freshie fresh, good to go too. though i think the heavy side cut/small radius was working a little against me in the untouched stuff.
i think a stiff rocker ski is a good way to go. the ski is already in the banana shape that you want, so no need to be flexing much. i never liked a soft rocker ski like the K2 hell-bent which when the rocker tip would hit some fluff, it would flex back 8 inches, losing allll of your power. a stiff rocker that doesnt flex back doesnt give a shit. f...ing honey badger skis.
(those 12mm and 5mm dimensions are exaggerated, i dont remember off the top of my head what they were, but needless to say they are some stiff mothas)
http://precisionmotions.wordpress.com/s ... rousel-100
http://precisionmotions.wordpress.com/s ... arousel-99
http://precisionmotions.wordpress.com/s ... rousel-101
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MontuckyMadman
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petemorgan(pmoskico)
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montucky- what are you referring to? making a stiff ski? no one in the world?! well thats pretty sweet, finally i have some original thought!
i grew up racing skis and i could never find a stiff enough ski. so i built one, and it is super stiff. and seems to perform pretty well right out of the gates. some more R&D is still in order to see how i really like it.
i think it might be harder on the body. say for example you are doing a tip stall/buttery thing, that is a lot of torque on your calfs and hammies, a softer ski will help cushion that torque and a stiffer ski will transfer all of that torque.
i grew up racing skis and i could never find a stiff enough ski. so i built one, and it is super stiff. and seems to perform pretty well right out of the gates. some more R&D is still in order to see how i really like it.
i think it might be harder on the body. say for example you are doing a tip stall/buttery thing, that is a lot of torque on your calfs and hammies, a softer ski will help cushion that torque and a stiffer ski will transfer all of that torque.
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NinetyFour
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petemorgan(pmoskico)
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Well, I tore my ACL while skiing on these stiff skis, about 3 weeks ago. There were a lot of factors that contributed to this injury/accident, and I dont think i should blame the stiffness of these skis, but its possible that they were a factor. they are basically stiff, groomer, super G race inspired skis that i probably should not have been riding in super deep snow. i was skiing in the back seat a lot of the day, which is a recipe for hurting your knees.
the accident happened when there was low visibility and there was about 3 plus feet of new snow in 2 days. deep and a little heavy. I skied these stiffies all morning, not the most ideal ski for the day, but still fun. i was leaning leaning back more than normal, skiing in the backseat for the majority of the day. i should have been skiing wider skis
anyways, i was going slow due to visibility, but i didnt see a cliffy/rocky drop (maybe 8 foot drop that wasnt totally vertical) i was about to come to a stop but then the snow released (a little sluff) ontop of the drop, and instead i accelerated and i skied/fell in the backseat over these rocks and the jarring made my knee pop before i even landed.
leaning way far back in the backseat produced a tremendous amount of torque on the ACL before i even hit the ground. people hurt themselves on all types of skis. so i would say this probably would have happened with any ski. it was more about the ski boot pulling my tib/fib (calf) forward away from my femur, and my quads and hamstrings try very hard to keep the backseat riding going, but it was too much torque for my ACL.
the only reason that a wider ski might have prevented this, is that i might not been riding in the backseat as much. backseat riding is the main culprit. though a little softer ski may have helped cushion the rocky landing a little while i was in the back seat.
Moral of the story is this: Use the right ski for the conditions. Use a groomer ski on groomer days, use a powder ski in the deep powder. doing anything different might risk injury. leaning too far back is how most people tear knees.
skiing the deep powder in the northwest... the right tool for the job is a ski with rocker because you do not have to lean back as much therefore protecting your knees. but width is important too, and stiffness as well.
Also train for skiing. physical fitness is extremely important to preventing injuries.
ski safe and stay healthy
the accident happened when there was low visibility and there was about 3 plus feet of new snow in 2 days. deep and a little heavy. I skied these stiffies all morning, not the most ideal ski for the day, but still fun. i was leaning leaning back more than normal, skiing in the backseat for the majority of the day. i should have been skiing wider skis
anyways, i was going slow due to visibility, but i didnt see a cliffy/rocky drop (maybe 8 foot drop that wasnt totally vertical) i was about to come to a stop but then the snow released (a little sluff) ontop of the drop, and instead i accelerated and i skied/fell in the backseat over these rocks and the jarring made my knee pop before i even landed.
leaning way far back in the backseat produced a tremendous amount of torque on the ACL before i even hit the ground. people hurt themselves on all types of skis. so i would say this probably would have happened with any ski. it was more about the ski boot pulling my tib/fib (calf) forward away from my femur, and my quads and hamstrings try very hard to keep the backseat riding going, but it was too much torque for my ACL.
the only reason that a wider ski might have prevented this, is that i might not been riding in the backseat as much. backseat riding is the main culprit. though a little softer ski may have helped cushion the rocky landing a little while i was in the back seat.
Moral of the story is this: Use the right ski for the conditions. Use a groomer ski on groomer days, use a powder ski in the deep powder. doing anything different might risk injury. leaning too far back is how most people tear knees.
skiing the deep powder in the northwest... the right tool for the job is a ski with rocker because you do not have to lean back as much therefore protecting your knees. but width is important too, and stiffness as well.
Also train for skiing. physical fitness is extremely important to preventing injuries.
ski safe and stay healthy
Last edited by petemorgan(pmoskico) on Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:45 am, edited 3 times in total.