You know it probably yourself, you see the guys jumping around, hitting boxes and rails and you think... how does that steel not crack or tear apart?
Well that's because they use a good steel quality that is espacially made for this 'heavy duty' skiis.
I searched the threads to look into it but I couldn't find what materials are being used or what people would recommend so I post my question:
What kind of steel would you use for freestyle ski edges?
Would you use stainless or isn't that needed for your skiis?
Thank you once again!
Ruud
Metal edges for freestyle ski: What kind of steel?
Moderators: Head Monkey, kelvin, bigKam, skidesmond, chrismp
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ruudsjoukes
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MontuckyMadman
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dood whats wrong with you?
http://skibuilders.com/cart/products/Ed ... -2-11.html
You can't make them yourself. You could try but they would suck.
Call CDW in Ohio.
http://skibuilders.com/cart/products/Ed ... -2-11.html
You can't make them yourself. You could try but they would suck.
Call CDW in Ohio.
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ruudsjoukes
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Dude... I don't freakin live in the US that's why!
So instead of giving me links I can't use, help me out on it... damn...
I def. can make them myself, I'm a mech. eng. so don't act like you know me. I was just asking for the materials specs since that's out of region and people prop. know around here. That's what this forum is about innit?
So instead of giving me links I can't use, help me out on it... damn...
I def. can make them myself, I'm a mech. eng. so don't act like you know me. I was just asking for the materials specs since that's out of region and people prop. know around here. That's what this forum is about innit?
I think this forum is for people to share their experiences and ideas to help each other build better skis and snowboards. This forum is also a great tool for research. I personally have gained so much knowledge from searching this forum alone its not even funny, and all your initial questions I'm sure can be answered using the search tool.
As for the edges, you are better off ordering them from the US than trying to make them yourself... bottom line. Mech engineer or not your not going to be able to get edges machined for cheaper than the hit for shipping will be.
As for the edges, you are better off ordering them from the US than trying to make them yourself... bottom line. Mech engineer or not your not going to be able to get edges machined for cheaper than the hit for shipping will be.
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MontuckyMadman
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They are hot rolled anyway not cold rolled or machine cut. I think.
Don't focus on making your own edges.
I will forward you edges from skibuilders if they will not ship to CA. I go to the post everyday and send crap to canada for my job.
Why all the uppity kids all of a sudden from cauckistan? Take a load off your too stressed.
Don't focus on making your own edges.
I will forward you edges from skibuilders if they will not ship to CA. I go to the post everyday and send crap to canada for my job.
Why all the uppity kids all of a sudden from cauckistan? Take a load off your too stressed.
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MontuckyMadman
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ruudsjoukes
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We'll make it work.
The reason I got upset is that I just would like to know more on the subject of freestyle ski building and it's materials. Of course I can order or get around it, but that wasn't the question was it?
I would like to know what would be the best or whatever companies might use and yeah, you guys probably know better then I do so while you might be willing to share info instead of keeping me down and tell me to search (which I already did for hours) you might just help me out and share what you know?
Does that sound fair or am I mistaken here? If so then let me know but I have the feeling that I rather be rejected than helped in my questioning.
Edit: Yeah but it's the general used hardness. Isn't it so that they use different ones in different skiis? I can assume they would... but... i don't know.
The reason I got upset is that I just would like to know more on the subject of freestyle ski building and it's materials. Of course I can order or get around it, but that wasn't the question was it?
I would like to know what would be the best or whatever companies might use and yeah, you guys probably know better then I do so while you might be willing to share info instead of keeping me down and tell me to search (which I already did for hours) you might just help me out and share what you know?
Does that sound fair or am I mistaken here? If so then let me know but I have the feeling that I rather be rejected than helped in my questioning.
Edit: Yeah but it's the general used hardness. Isn't it so that they use different ones in different skiis? I can assume they would... but... i don't know.
I don't believe edges are the weakest part even on a freestyle ski.
On a big hit they might just act as a wedge that would delam your ski sideways but having a 100+ hardness or stainless edges won't change that.
CDW ships to Canada... and they have quite a large selection of edges.
On a big hit they might just act as a wedge that would delam your ski sideways but having a 100+ hardness or stainless edges won't change that.
CDW ships to Canada... and they have quite a large selection of edges.
A bad day skiing is always better than a good one at work...
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MontuckyMadman
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ruudsjoukes
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MontuckyMadman
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well yeah, skis are built to slide on snow not metal.
Call CDW and ask them if they make a different hardness edge or an edge formulated for this type of an application. Metal on Metal? You may have to order 400 skis worth but at least you get a hard one.
I think the rockwell 48 provides the optimal hardness to flexibility ratio that you can tune and holds an edge and isn't as brittle as it could be. When you work with some you will be happy they are not harder.
You could be on to something here but you have seemed to post a bunch of random threads about general things in if yo had more patience you would read ALL the threads on this board, bookmark and print and study you would learn so much more than asking generalized questions.
Hey, I've done it, we all do it but c'mon go read some more.
You could also buy existing edges and re temper them to a more optimal operating hardness? doubt it.
Call CDW and ask them if they make a different hardness edge or an edge formulated for this type of an application. Metal on Metal? You may have to order 400 skis worth but at least you get a hard one.
I think the rockwell 48 provides the optimal hardness to flexibility ratio that you can tune and holds an edge and isn't as brittle as it could be. When you work with some you will be happy they are not harder.
You could be on to something here but you have seemed to post a bunch of random threads about general things in if yo had more patience you would read ALL the threads on this board, bookmark and print and study you would learn so much more than asking generalized questions.
Hey, I've done it, we all do it but c'mon go read some more.
You could also buy existing edges and re temper them to a more optimal operating hardness? doubt it.
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twizzstyle
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- Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:25 pm
- Location: Kenmore, Wa USA
Re: Metal edges for freestyle ski: What kind of steel?
The edges on my park skis (not home-builts) have TONS of cracks, and I have many friends with multiple inches of edge missing where they were torn out from rails. "Real" ski companies don't do anything special, other than wider edges (which does help)ruudsjoukes wrote:You know it probably yourself, you see the guys jumping around, hitting boxes and rails and you think... how does that steel not crack or tear apart?
To be honest most of us don't worry much about edges, and buying off the skibuilders.com site and paying for shipping is faaaaaaaaaaar cheaper than trying to make your own. Trust me I've looked in to it, and I have to ship to Australia.
Probably stupid question but I'll ask anyway: do you detune your edges for rails?
How do they destruct, by damaging the metal itself or by delamination at the edge? I didn't really understand your problem. If it's by delam, then getting a beefier edge isn't going to help you much. Again if delam, is it coming away from the base, or the lower glass layer? Caused by impact or the actual sliding?
From the research I've done pretty much everyone (ski companies, board companies, home builders) uses the same edges, the difference is in the step size which is matched to the base thickness rather than for any structural purpose. The base thickness varies depending on use (thinner base = lighter but weaker, thicker = stronger and heavier), so for a rail ski you'd probably want a thick base.
Most of us use a 1.33mm base with 1.33mm edge step.
Even if you could get a harder edge, you don't really want that. Harder = more brittle (generally, though not always) and stiffer. You want the edge to be able to form easily to the shape of the ski or board when in the press, harder edges will resist that. Not to mention you need to bend it in to shape in the first place. Stainless will likely resist bonding to the resin more than steel, which will lead to more delam. A softer edge won't do you much good either, it will deform too easily on impact.
What you're better off doing is looking in to the support for the edge, such as VDS (bondable rubber) strips along the edge to allow for some flex. Look in to the lateral stiffness of the ski as well, if it's super stiff and there's no give then all the force goes in to the edge, if you can soften it up it may help in absorbing the initial impact.
Post up some pics of the damage you've caused and perhaps we can help more.
The last thing to mention is skis always have a life expectancy, so let us know how many days they've done too.
Probably stupid question but I'll ask anyway: do you detune your edges for rails?
How do they destruct, by damaging the metal itself or by delamination at the edge? I didn't really understand your problem. If it's by delam, then getting a beefier edge isn't going to help you much. Again if delam, is it coming away from the base, or the lower glass layer? Caused by impact or the actual sliding?
From the research I've done pretty much everyone (ski companies, board companies, home builders) uses the same edges, the difference is in the step size which is matched to the base thickness rather than for any structural purpose. The base thickness varies depending on use (thinner base = lighter but weaker, thicker = stronger and heavier), so for a rail ski you'd probably want a thick base.
Most of us use a 1.33mm base with 1.33mm edge step.
Even if you could get a harder edge, you don't really want that. Harder = more brittle (generally, though not always) and stiffer. You want the edge to be able to form easily to the shape of the ski or board when in the press, harder edges will resist that. Not to mention you need to bend it in to shape in the first place. Stainless will likely resist bonding to the resin more than steel, which will lead to more delam. A softer edge won't do you much good either, it will deform too easily on impact.
What you're better off doing is looking in to the support for the edge, such as VDS (bondable rubber) strips along the edge to allow for some flex. Look in to the lateral stiffness of the ski as well, if it's super stiff and there's no give then all the force goes in to the edge, if you can soften it up it may help in absorbing the initial impact.
Post up some pics of the damage you've caused and perhaps we can help more.
The last thing to mention is skis always have a life expectancy, so let us know how many days they've done too.
True also!CAFactory wrote:I think this forum is for people to share their experiences and ideas to help each other build better skis and snowboards. This forum is also a great tool for research. I personally have gained so much knowledge from searching this forum alone its not even funny, and all your initial questions I'm sure can be answered using the search tool.
Last edited by OAC on Mon Oct 04, 2010 11:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.