I've been searching for a viable alternative to Yellow Poplar for core material here in Australia. I've come across Paulownia - supposedly a very light weight wood with high strength properties and available fairly cheaply.
Does anyone have experience with it? Can compare to Poplar in terms of rigidity, strength, hardness, weight?
There's a fair bit of use in surfboards and kite boards, but these may need to be stiffer than snowboards. Arbor have made a board called the NightTrain where they substitute some poplar for paulownia (ref: http://snowboarding.transworld.net/1000 ... nightrain/ ).
Paulownia
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i`m just investigating paulownia as well.
it is super light and pretty strong compared to its weight. i haven`t done some laminated tests up to now, just flexed the wood and snapped it into pieces. i was surprised how well it hold up. it nearly hold up as much load as poplar. the fibres of paulownia are quite thick and massive. while poplar snaps on a "straight" line 90° to the load the paulownia gets ripped apart for a longer area. there is not a straight line, the fibres get ripped off each other. hope you get what i`m trying to say. up to now i can`t say wether paulownia is better or poplar.
i`ll definately try to build some "standardized" laminated test samples to get an objective comparison - as soon as i have time
it is super light and pretty strong compared to its weight. i haven`t done some laminated tests up to now, just flexed the wood and snapped it into pieces. i was surprised how well it hold up. it nearly hold up as much load as poplar. the fibres of paulownia are quite thick and massive. while poplar snaps on a "straight" line 90° to the load the paulownia gets ripped apart for a longer area. there is not a straight line, the fibres get ripped off each other. hope you get what i`m trying to say. up to now i can`t say wether paulownia is better or poplar.
i`ll definately try to build some "standardized" laminated test samples to get an objective comparison - as soon as i have time
plywood freeride industries - go ply, ride wood!
From what i've read Paulownia is stronger than Poplar. My concerns are mostly to do with it's flex characteristics. I'm worried the board will be too soft and flexible. I've got some material properties i'll post up shortly.
Arbor use it fairly extensively within their range, however never as a full replacement for Poplar. They always use a paulownia/poplar blend or pure poplar. This could be due to cost though.
It's used for kite surfing boards and surfboards a fair bit so I'm not too worried about it's ability for use in manufacturing of snowboards.
Arbor use it fairly extensively within their range, however never as a full replacement for Poplar. They always use a paulownia/poplar blend or pure poplar. This could be due to cost though.
It's used for kite surfing boards and surfboards a fair bit so I'm not too worried about it's ability for use in manufacturing of snowboards.
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bobbyrobie
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- Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 9:17 pm
For any info i suggest you contact a kite board manufacturer. Decay and Underground use it extensively here in NZ. I asked them, and they seemed to indicate it was mainly used due to its positive bouancy characteristics, and lacked a bit of strength in compression.
I cant see it being a problem tho, my kiteboards are stiffer than a snow board.
I cant see it being a problem tho, my kiteboards are stiffer than a snow board.
It's a very soft wood, this is true. I figure with 2 layers of 750gsm (22oz) triaxial fibreglass it should be right though.
I've never kite boarded, though something I've always wanted to get in to. I have wakeboarded though, and wakeboards tend to be a fair bit thicker than snowboards, is this also true of kiteboards?
Thanks for the feedback, if you find any more info please share.
I've never kite boarded, though something I've always wanted to get in to. I have wakeboarded though, and wakeboards tend to be a fair bit thicker than snowboards, is this also true of kiteboards?
Thanks for the feedback, if you find any more info please share.
kiteboards are a lot like wakeboards. maybe a bit smaller and a bit more pop. the ones I have ridden are pretty big though, almost small snowboard size. Makes the learning curve a lot easier!!
Definitely a lot stiffer than a snowboard though. Like wakeboard vs snowboard type of comparison.
Decay kiteboards seem a good company in NZ. Nice homegrown startup in a new industry. One of my friends toured their setup a while back and said it was pretty cool.
Definitely a lot stiffer than a snowboard though. Like wakeboard vs snowboard type of comparison.
Decay kiteboards seem a good company in NZ. Nice homegrown startup in a new industry. One of my friends toured their setup a while back and said it was pretty cool.
Don't wait up, I'm off to kill Summer....
A kiteboard is kind of halfway between the profiles of a snow board and a wakeboard, in terms of the amount of rocker and rail to rail shape.
A kiteboard is of a very very simlar construction to skis. I dont know much about snowboards sorry. But its basically a laminted core with abs sidewalls, coated in glass.
The the thickness is almost the same as a snow board (just ran out to the garage and checked for ya). Tho the difference is that the kiteboard holds the thickness right to the tips, where as the snowboard seemed to get thinner.
I reckon two layers of tri would sort it out no worries. Maybe rig up a core only, and see how it handles being twisted etc. Ill find the emails from the kite guys and post up the info tomorrow. From memory they use a different timber on the rails...
A kiteboard is of a very very simlar construction to skis. I dont know much about snowboards sorry. But its basically a laminted core with abs sidewalls, coated in glass.
The the thickness is almost the same as a snow board (just ran out to the garage and checked for ya). Tho the difference is that the kiteboard holds the thickness right to the tips, where as the snowboard seemed to get thinner.
I reckon two layers of tri would sort it out no worries. Maybe rig up a core only, and see how it handles being twisted etc. Ill find the emails from the kite guys and post up the info tomorrow. From memory they use a different timber on the rails...
Hi. Where are you sourcing the Paulownia from? Melbourne somewhere?
Also I'd be ditching the Tas Oak for side walls. I'd be looking for something with a less open/coarse grain and better compressions strength. UHMWPE density is 945 kg/m3 compared to Tas Oak at 630 kg/m3. So for the same weight you could use a denser timber with a closer structure giving better edge support and water resistance. Some naturally waxy (and maybe water repellant) timbers are teak (Tectona grandis), cows ash (Flindersia australis - commonly used for flooring in Australia), some of the desert hardwoods (Gidgee, Mulga etc.) or some of the tougher Euclyptus. Or even ditch the Tas Oak and go for Messmate. (similar but tougher). My 2 cents> C.
Also I'd be ditching the Tas Oak for side walls. I'd be looking for something with a less open/coarse grain and better compressions strength. UHMWPE density is 945 kg/m3 compared to Tas Oak at 630 kg/m3. So for the same weight you could use a denser timber with a closer structure giving better edge support and water resistance. Some naturally waxy (and maybe water repellant) timbers are teak (Tectona grandis), cows ash (Flindersia australis - commonly used for flooring in Australia), some of the desert hardwoods (Gidgee, Mulga etc.) or some of the tougher Euclyptus. Or even ditch the Tas Oak and go for Messmate. (similar but tougher). My 2 cents> C.
There's a supplier of Paulownia in Melbourne here http://www.portphillip.com.au/
I think I'll be sourcing from this guy though - much better communication and a real interest in the project http://www.paulownia-timber-sales.com.au/. The logistics difference is minimal, I'm up the far north end of Melbourne so port phillip is 90mins drive for me, I'd be getting it shipped out anyway.
Thanks for the feedback on the Tassie Oak. I was looking at it primarily as it is very easy to source, but I'll look at some harder woods too.
I think I'll be sourcing from this guy though - much better communication and a real interest in the project http://www.paulownia-timber-sales.com.au/. The logistics difference is minimal, I'm up the far north end of Melbourne so port phillip is 90mins drive for me, I'd be getting it shipped out anyway.
Thanks for the feedback on the Tassie Oak. I was looking at it primarily as it is very easy to source, but I'll look at some harder woods too.
Hi Alex13
I was looking through a Nidecker 2009 catalogue last night and noticed that they are using a Teak sidewall.
Green Power: a new eco-technology.
This year Nidecker is innovating again, by actively protecting our environment. Just have a closer look at the Platinum board, with recycled base made of nano-particles, with its sidewalls made of teak (a rot-proof wood) replacing the ABS (plastic), and with its linseed fibers replacing the special fiber, and you will instantly realize that Nidecker is entering into a new era, the Eco-Tech Snowboard era!
How teak, an endangered rainforest timber is 'green' I can't figure but that's all marketing I guess!! C.
I was looking through a Nidecker 2009 catalogue last night and noticed that they are using a Teak sidewall.
Green Power: a new eco-technology.
This year Nidecker is innovating again, by actively protecting our environment. Just have a closer look at the Platinum board, with recycled base made of nano-particles, with its sidewalls made of teak (a rot-proof wood) replacing the ABS (plastic), and with its linseed fibers replacing the special fiber, and you will instantly realize that Nidecker is entering into a new era, the Eco-Tech Snowboard era!
How teak, an endangered rainforest timber is 'green' I can't figure but that's all marketing I guess!! C.
