Hiya all,
just thought I could offer up a question to people, can we make skis-boards with edges not the same as the industry standard???
I have been riding the first few open days at coronet peak ( aka concrete peak) here in new zealand. To say icy would not do the conditions justice, we had 60cm powder waiting for opening day then it rained really hard and froze... still fun to be on snow after a 6 month break though.
Anyway, any thoughts on thicker steel edges, with higher levels of edge angle to create sharper edges- I mean if ice skates can work???
Thoughts guys....
edges
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alloyguitar
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seems like you could just make your cores a hair bigger, so the edge "stuck out" past the rest of the materials just a bit farther to be able to tune them to a bit more of an angle.
...or just route your boards with a more aggressive angle to them so you'd have more room to play with when sharpening.
I'd think that a thicker edge would just add weight and not much in the benefit department, since it's the part that contacts the snow (or, in your case, ice) that matters, and not really the rest of it.
I'd try the routing method.
...or just route your boards with a more aggressive angle to them so you'd have more room to play with when sharpening.
I'd think that a thicker edge would just add weight and not much in the benefit department, since it's the part that contacts the snow (or, in your case, ice) that matters, and not really the rest of it.
I'd try the routing method.
sounds like you're ready for the "Q and P"
http://www.thesnaz.com/2006/02/20/doug- ... -ski-tune/
if you do rout your sidewalls at a higher angle you must remember to alter the 80/20 sidewall to metal ratio
http://www.thesnaz.com/2006/02/20/doug- ... -ski-tune/
if you do rout your sidewalls at a higher angle you must remember to alter the 80/20 sidewall to metal ratio
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alloyguitar
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j-steezy763
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knightsofnii
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doughboyshredder
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The reason Ice skates work on ice so well is the same reason Magnetraction or any of the derivatives of work so well on ice.
If you look closely at an ice skate blade it has kind of a wave to it. This was one of the inspirations for Libs mag.
There is a reason that Burton (quietly on one model), rossignol, roxy, smokin, and I forget who else are licensing mag technology. It works. Look at their snowskates.
For ice nothing beats a properly tuned magnetraction edge.
(Unless you are a serious bad ass carving machine that can lock your sidecut in even in boiler plate.)
If you look closely at an ice skate blade it has kind of a wave to it. This was one of the inspirations for Libs mag.
There is a reason that Burton (quietly on one model), rossignol, roxy, smokin, and I forget who else are licensing mag technology. It works. Look at their snowskates.
For ice nothing beats a properly tuned magnetraction edge.
(Unless you are a serious bad ass carving machine that can lock your sidecut in even in boiler plate.)
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knightsofnii
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rossignol and roxy are not liscensing magnetraction, their parent company quiksilver owns lib, and the magnetraction patent.
smokin has it too but i'm not sure if they officially have a liscense for it, but i know they have some sort of permission to do it.
Burton has their own spin on it, it just waves very subtly, once under each foot, you really have to look close to see it, it's like a thickening of the edge more than a wave.
Ice skate blades work because they have a concave channel running the length of the blade, it compresses the ice into water and you glide on the water.
Snowboard bases are ground and structured for this very reason.
smokin has it too but i'm not sure if they officially have a liscense for it, but i know they have some sort of permission to do it.
Burton has their own spin on it, it just waves very subtly, once under each foot, you really have to look close to see it, it's like a thickening of the edge more than a wave.
Ice skate blades work because they have a concave channel running the length of the blade, it compresses the ice into water and you glide on the water.
Snowboard bases are ground and structured for this very reason.
Doug
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doughboyshredder
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knights, you don't know what you are talking about.
Yes, quiksilver owns Mervin Mfg. Mervin Mfg owns lib, gnu, and bent metal. Mervin Mfg. also holds the patent on Magnetraction. Quiksilver also owns Rossignol and Roxy.
Because of the way business works Rossignol and Roxy don't just get to use any technology that Mervin comes up with just because the ownership is the same. There has to be licensing agreements, especially considering the potential sale of any of the individual entities. Perfect example is that Rossignol is for sale right now. The licensing of the magnetraction would presumably be included in that sale.
Jay is paying a per board fee to Mervin for Magnetraction. I believe it is 25.00 per board.
Burton signed an agreement with Mervin (details unknown and unpublished) in order to do their take on Mag without dealing with any law suits. As far as I know this was not a licensing agreement, as much as it was a way for Burton to head off any potential lawsuits.
As far as Ice Skates go, I think you are smoking crack if you think that the edges of the Ice Skate compress the ice into the channel between the edges and melt the ice so that the skates can glide on water. I mean really? WTF? That channel is simply to seperate the inside and outside edge of the skate. Similar to skis Ice skates have the inside and outside edge to help initiate turning.
Snowboard bases are ground to obtain a smooth flat surface, and then structured so that the base of the snowboard does not stick to the snow like a suction cup. This is especially important during warm spring conditions. If you want to learn more this is a good paper on it : http://www.tokous.com/PDF/Articles/Ian% ... 20pics.pdf
Nothing pisses me off in forums more than when somebody posts out of their ass.
From Wiki:
Yes, quiksilver owns Mervin Mfg. Mervin Mfg owns lib, gnu, and bent metal. Mervin Mfg. also holds the patent on Magnetraction. Quiksilver also owns Rossignol and Roxy.
Because of the way business works Rossignol and Roxy don't just get to use any technology that Mervin comes up with just because the ownership is the same. There has to be licensing agreements, especially considering the potential sale of any of the individual entities. Perfect example is that Rossignol is for sale right now. The licensing of the magnetraction would presumably be included in that sale.
Jay is paying a per board fee to Mervin for Magnetraction. I believe it is 25.00 per board.
Burton signed an agreement with Mervin (details unknown and unpublished) in order to do their take on Mag without dealing with any law suits. As far as I know this was not a licensing agreement, as much as it was a way for Burton to head off any potential lawsuits.
As far as Ice Skates go, I think you are smoking crack if you think that the edges of the Ice Skate compress the ice into the channel between the edges and melt the ice so that the skates can glide on water. I mean really? WTF? That channel is simply to seperate the inside and outside edge of the skate. Similar to skis Ice skates have the inside and outside edge to help initiate turning.
Snowboard bases are ground to obtain a smooth flat surface, and then structured so that the base of the snowboard does not stick to the snow like a suction cup. This is especially important during warm spring conditions. If you want to learn more this is a good paper on it : http://www.tokous.com/PDF/Articles/Ian% ... 20pics.pdf
Nothing pisses me off in forums more than when somebody posts out of their ass.
From Wiki:
Modern ice skate blades are not shaped like knives. The bottom of the blade has a crescent-shaped hollow, creating two sharp edges on each skate. Ideally, the two edges of a blade are parallel, but poor maintenance practices, such as improper sharpening or lack of consistent sharpening, can often result in oblique edges. These "bad" edges can affect skating ability significantly. The depth of this hollow is known as the Radius of Hollow (RoH). The Radius of Hollow is typically between 1/4" and 1" depending on the type of skates and the user. The optimal depth depends on factors such as the skater's weight, ability, strength, sporting activity, and (for ice hockey) style of play. The skater uses these edges in different combinations in order to maneuver. When ice skates are sharpened the blade is ground against a template either to restore the hollow or provide a different radius.
Speed skates and touring skates, however, have a completely flat bottom. There is no hollow, only a squared off bottom with 2 edges. This improves glide time by not cutting into the ice.
Ice skating works because the metal blade at the bottom of the ice skate shoe can glide with very little friction over the surface of the ice. However, slightly leaning the blade over and digging one of its edges into the ice ("rockover and bite") gives skaters the ability to increase friction and control their movement at will. In addition, by choosing to move along curved paths while leaning their bodies radially and flexing their knees, skaters can use gravity to control and increase their momentum. They can also create momentum by pushing the blade against the curved track which it cuts into the ice. Skillfully combining these two actions of leaning and pushing— a technique known as "drawing"— results in what looks like effortless and graceful curvilinear flow across the ice.
How the low-friction surface develops is not exactly known, but a large body of knowledge does exist. These are explained below.
Experiments show that ice has a minimum kinetic friction at −7°C (19°F), and many indoor skating rinks set their system to a similar temperature. The low amount of friction actually observed has been difficult for physicists to explain, especially at lower temperatures. On the surface of any body of ice at a temperature above about −20°C (−4°F), there is always a thin film of liquid water, ranging in thickness from only a few molecules to thousands of molecules. This is because an abrupt end to the crystalline structure is not the most entropically favorable possibility. The thickness of this liquid layer depends almost entirely on the temperature of the surface of the ice, with higher temperatures giving a thicker layer. However, skating is possible at temperatures much lower than −20°C, at which temperature there is no naturally occurring film of liquid.
When the blade of an ice skate passes over the ice, the ice undergoes two kinds of changes in its physical state: an increase in pressure, and a change in temperature due to kinetic friction and the heat of melting. Direct measurements[3] show that the heating due to friction is greater than the cooling due to the heat of melting. Although high pressure can cause ice to melt, by lowering its melting point, the pressure required is far greater than that actually produced by ice skates. Frictional heating does lead to an increase in the thickness of the naturally occurring film of liquid, but measurements with an atomic force microscope have found the boundary layer to be too thin to supply the observed reduction in friction