Project Pallet with a face lift

[bigKam]

Last night while driving home after work and thinking about the huge stack of skis I had in the garage, a thought came to mind. Why not give one pair a face lift and then use them again like they were new?

Project Pallet skis with a face lift.

Last year I made a pair of skis out of wood from an old pallet (Project Pallet, http://www.skibuilders.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=810) and a couple pairs using the same wood mixed with other junk wood (http://www.skibuilders.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1040). Shortly after, I took two pairs to Australia and New Zealand:


The pair shown above in the Snowy Mountains skied beautifully. I logged in about 12 days on them, 5 inbounds and 7 in the backcountry. In addition to skiing them in Australia and New Zealand, I skied them in the Cascade Mountains a few times, for example this shot taken by Kelvin at Washington Pass:


and lent them to a friend for a few turns:


My batch of Project Pallet related skis, a total of three pairs, all have the same side cut. This side cut, which happens to be my favorite, has shown up in six other pairs of skis. I really like this shape.

Anyway, I really enjoy the pair shown in the above photos. They have a nice flex, handle very well at high speed, and perform well in mixed snow conditions, especially in the backcountry where non-ideal conditions seem to pop up around every other turn. Like the other skis I've produced over the last year, they sport a vibration damping gizmo. I don't have any conclusive data yet to support their performance, but psychologically they make me feel warm and fuzzy inside. It's all in my head, but that's okay.

Because of different manufacturing techniques I've been exploring, the family of pallet skis exhibit to some degree delamination or a tendency for premature self-destruction. For example, in one pair there's delam at the sidewall/glass interface up and down the entire length of both skis. I did not flame treat the sidewalls for that pair, but rather sanded them. On another pair, the edges separated at the tips and tails. Finally, in the pair shown above, the edges have separated at the tip and a small section of topsheet peeled from the graphic layer. Despite what I call 'cosmetic blemishes', they skied great.

Just after dinner, I went to the garage and dug through my pile of skis and pulled out the pair shown in the above photos. The green and orange colors were vibrant. I inspected the skis more carefully and noticed that they were in great shape with the exception of a small section of edge separation at the tip and a small piece of topsheet coming unglued. Using a pair of pliers, I peeled away the topsheet like opening a sardine can with a special key. It took less than 10 minutes to peel off the topsheet. I did have to work a little to get the topsheets off, but it was straightforward. Underneath was the fabric, nicely stuck to the glass layer, and it felt uniform but rough.

I went back into the house, thought about it some more, then at 10:30pm went back into the garage with new graphics in hand. I mixed some epoxy, laid the skis down on the aluminum cassette, and then applied the epoxy and new graphic layer. Instead of adding topsheet to seal the deal, I left it off and covered everything with parchment paper, added the cover to the cassette, and shoved everything into my heated press, Kublai. I baked the skis at 190F for one hour and turned off the heater at 12:21am. I left the pressure on at 75 psi. The air temp in my garage was relatively warm, 85F.

I woke up at 7am, went into the garage to let the air out. The cattrack felt warm to the touch. I pulled the skis out and voilà:



The new face lift looked better than expected. The colors were flat, but very pleasant. No topsheet was a welcomed surprise, except there were some wrinkles in the fabric where the tip/tail curve up. After a photo or two I went back into the house to do some work from home. Then at 10am I came back out into the garage and cleaned them up by 10:45am. I added an additional 2 degrees of bevel to the sidewall to freshen them up. Now they look like brand new skis, AND, the edge separation was healed by the re-pressing process. Nice!

I plan to use these skis the remainder of the summer because I really like them. Now I wonder what other skis I can 'recycle'...

[G-man]

Hey Kam,

Great write-up, and amazing how nice the skis came out. I was planning to leave out the top sheet and just use parchment paper on my next pair of skis, also. Did the parchment paper also wrinkle in the same area where the cloth graphics did? I had figured that it might be a bit difficult to keep things wrinkle-free at the tip and tail curves. The flat look is quite nice.

Hope you get some sleep tonight.

G-man

[bigKam]

Hi G-man,

I was shocked at how nice they looked this morning! The flat surfaces were completely smooth. I did not pay attention whether the wrinkles in the paper matched the wrinkles in the fabric before I removed the paper. But after closely inspecting the wrinkles afterwards, it appeared that the paper could have been the problem. I was afraid of that in the beginning, but decided to give it a try. It may be difficult to ensure smoothness where the curves are using the paper. I placed a thin sheet (1/16") of aluminum over the paper and then a sheet of thin uhmw before I put it into the press. Next time I will try a smooth piece of uhmw instead of the parchment paper. That stuff won't stick, but it may not be usable after one press because the heat essentially distorts the uhmw and the distortion may cause future skis to exhibit wrinkles and such. Worth a try I suppose.

I really like not having the topsheet. For one, it's lighter and for touring skis this is exactly what you want. I recall Irdis making a light pair of skis without topsheet. Second, the matte finish is really nice and appealing.

However, I think the tradeoff will be durability. The epoxy impregnated fabric may be prone to scratches, especially fraying along the perimeter of the ski. Also, the hardened epoxy will not likely be tough, meaning, it will not absorb as much energy as the Ptex-type topsheet will. Impact forces could cause chipping and cracks. The other thing I'm afraid of is the likelihood of the topsheet soaking in moisture. It may not be a whole lot, but it will be enough to cause snow to stick (via freezing) to the top of the skis. What I find annoying when I'm touring is snow stuck to the top of my skis -- what a drag, literally. So to prevent this from happening I think I'm going to wax the top of my skis, or use Scotch Guard, or spray that Gore stuff to help skins glide.

But seriously, I think I'm going to make more skis without the topsheet to save some $$ and also shave weight from my skis. I have a new project in the works to design and make an ultra-light pair of BC skis.

The pair I just revamped I mounted a set of Voile Switchback bindings this evening after dinner. I'm excited to ski my new old skis.

[G-man]

Kam,

Back in my bicycle building days, I used a 2 part clear PU called IMRON to top coat my paint jobs. It was incredibly tough and resilient... and pretty toxic. It was made by DuPont, but they stopped making it long enough ago that many paint suppliers have never heard of it. I haven't done a whole lot of research on replacement products, but it sure seems that there should be something out there that is near as good as IMRON was. I think a good thick coat of IMRON would have been just about as tough as a UHMW top sheet, and much prettier... it was crystal clear and very shiny. They called it 'the wet look'. If I do find a suitable top coat, I plan to use a layer of peel ply under the pressing layer so that the subsequent top coat will adhere better.

Come to think of it, I think that hydrant71 built a snowboard a year or two ago in which he used a spray-on two-part PU top coat... very shiny and smooth. I don't have the energy to do a search at the moment, but I may look for that thread sometime soon.

I also like ditching the top sheet in order to eliminate a big area of potential delamination.

G-man

[bigKam]

Come to think of it, I think that hydrant71 built a snowboard a year or two ago in which he used a spray-on two-part PU top coat... very shiny and smooth.

Yes, I remember reading hydrant71's post. The finish did look nice.

I also like ditching the top sheet in order to eliminate a big area of potential delamination.

Some of my skis show delamination at the glass/wood interface, so I suspect that without a topsheet they may still delam. Although the absence of a topsheet may reduce the chances of failure. Will just have to see...

For now I really dig the 'naked' look.

[alloyguitar]

I'm thinking of trying this with hemp, but I, too, am worried about durability issues and fraying of the cloth.

I guess I'll just have to find out.

[krp8128]

To the best of my knowledge, IMRON is still availible. I worked for a yacht company that used it for the bootstripes on all their boots as recently as a year ago. Yes, it is toxic, but so is any other2 part PU.

I have some 2 part PU Clear Coat that I used for my car, it was PPG brand. If you build up a few coats it is essentially plastic. Think how tuff the paint on your car is, that is the clear coat.

For now, my skis just have 3-4oz fiberglass cloth over the fabric graphics. I figure when or if it gets scuffed up I can sand it smooth and recoat with either epoxy or PU.

[G-man]

krp2128,

You are totally right. After reading your post, I thought, "Well, there's one good way to find out... google it". So, I did and came up with lots of hits for IMRON. I don't know why I didn't think of that before... duh. The suppliers I talked with hadn't heard of it, and a friend of mine who paints custom bike frames for a living said it he hadn't heard anything about IMRON for over 20 years.

I still think I'll do a little research to see if I can find a good coating that is a bit more environmentally and health friendly. I still remember how relieved I was, when I stopped building bikes, that I was no longer having to expose myself to those occasional IMROM fumes. Nasty.

Thanks for the info.

G-man

[krp8128]

Oh yeah, there is definitely a more environmentally friendly product out there. Have you tried any of the UV stable epoxies?

They were so concerned about the Imron fumes that they would only paint after hours, and the only people allowed int he building were the two people doing the painting wearing full respirators.

[bigKam]

Here they are with Voile Switchback bindings and ready to ski. But the high today was 100 deg-F!

[G-man]

krp8128,

I haven't tried any of the UV stable epoxies, but I'll look into them. On a ski, I think that a top coat finish, whether epoxy or PU, could be brushed on rather than sprayed. I also used to build surfboards, and the finish resin coat was always brushed on and it came out very smooth. In terms of health and environmental issues, brushing is much superior to spraying.

BigKam,

The skis look great even in one hundred degree heat. Reports are that Timberline just got 9 new inches in an early June blizzard... that's on top of the many feet they still have. So, I'm sure those 'new' skis will get a work-out somewhere in the PNW soon. I'll probably do a Hood trip myself in the next couple of weeks.

G-man

[alloyguitar]

I hate you guys for having snow in the summer!

Our tiny season ends in late march here.

[sammer]

Awesome, way to recycle.

sam

[rockaukum]

I too did a set of skis without the top sheet. Came out good (by my standards). I skied them on them only once so far because I did not have the top sheet on them. I tried a clear PU and brushed it on. I'm not experienced with this stuff yet but the problem I have with it is finding the correct bush. Seem to have streaks or lines left by the brush (not runs). But I do like the gloss look to the skis.
rockaukum

[Motherhucker]

I tried a clear PU and brushed it on. I'm not experienced with this stuff yet but the problem I have with it is finding the correct bush. Seem to have streaks or lines left by the brush (not runs). But I do like the gloss look to the skis.
rockaukum

I make longboards, and i use foam brushes to put PU on the boards.
Then use really fine steel wool to buff out any ripples and streaks.
Then i use a tacky rag to pick up all the PU particles that the steel wool knocks down.
After abunch of coats it looks pretty good.