Wow they look great for a first ride!
I was asking about the base tape because i found out it really does not help. Tried it on my first pair. Took FOREVER to get off. I think most people use nothing at all and there is no more or less epoxy on the bases. I also think the tape overlap causes some flatness issues as well...
Weird Room '2013/14
Moderators: Head Monkey, kelvin, bigKam, skidesmond, chrismp
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IslandRider
- Posts: 80
- Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:00 am
- Location: Kelowna BC
Thanks man. Wasn't too bad to get off, but I was a little concerned about that. I put it on because even after prebending the bases/edges they didn't sit perfectly flush with the cassette and I was worried about getting goop under there during the layup. I'm not using heat yet and I could see that making the tape a pain. We'll see I guess, didn't cause any flatness issues on this pair, and the bases came out clean, but I'm not totally attached to the idea so I'll scrap it if it starts causing problems.
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IslandRider
- Posts: 80
- Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:00 am
- Location: Kelowna BC
Tool question for the experts. I want to buy a stationary belt sander to use for finishing work. Looking for opinions on which one of these would be more useful for ski specific jobs.
These are dirt cheap ($90), and quality seems to be ok from the reviews I've read. My only concern is that it will be sanding across the grain on the tips/tails. Could make a fence to do sidewalls with the grain. Longer belt may last longer before getting plugged up. Disc would be handy for cleanup on other stuff.
This one is about twice the price ($199), but the adjustable table bevel means I could potentially do sidewall bevels and cleanup in one step (does that seem like a bad idea?). Also would be sanding with the grain on the sidewalls. Doubt I'd ever use the scroll setting, and could do essentially the same on my drill press. Definitely better quality.
Any thoughts?
These are dirt cheap ($90), and quality seems to be ok from the reviews I've read. My only concern is that it will be sanding across the grain on the tips/tails. Could make a fence to do sidewalls with the grain. Longer belt may last longer before getting plugged up. Disc would be handy for cleanup on other stuff.
This one is about twice the price ($199), but the adjustable table bevel means I could potentially do sidewall bevels and cleanup in one step (does that seem like a bad idea?). Also would be sanding with the grain on the sidewalls. Doubt I'd ever use the scroll setting, and could do essentially the same on my drill press. Definitely better quality.
Any thoughts?
I've been looking at this one but would like to see it in person.
Not sure about the vertical bar between the tables. Looks like it should come off but...
http://www.busybeetools.com/products/BE ... AFTEX.html
My other thought has been to just by one of those cheap "crappy tire" belt sanders on sale for $49 and make a stand/table for it.
http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/maste ... rSxm-Lw5LM
sam
Not sure about the vertical bar between the tables. Looks like it should come off but...
http://www.busybeetools.com/products/BE ... AFTEX.html
My other thought has been to just by one of those cheap "crappy tire" belt sanders on sale for $49 and make a stand/table for it.
http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/maste ... rSxm-Lw5LM
sam
You don't even have a legit signature, nothing to reveal who you are and what you do...
Best of luck to you. (uneva)
Best of luck to you. (uneva)
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MontuckyMadman
- Posts: 2395
- Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:41 pm
Not that anybody listens but I was told no good on these by several people who tried to use these for this application. Belt clogged too quick, cant make them use with water and other issues.
SIDEWALL. With a dry belt the edge and sidewall gets hot easily. not a good idea.
If you dont have a wet belt grinder the best second alternative is a sanding disk on a hand angle grinder. trust me. takes off allot of material and doesnt heat up the laminate. the dust- this way can be an issue but it works the best.
For the base. You need water and a cooling cutting agent. A dry belt will just make it worse in the long run when someone goes to give them a wet sand. I have also tried about 7 different types of abrasive belt from several manufacturers, Bar none the best is the hermes zirconia from SVST. Its what you want without any comparison, longevity and quality of cut are the best.
SIDEWALL. With a dry belt the edge and sidewall gets hot easily. not a good idea.
If you dont have a wet belt grinder the best second alternative is a sanding disk on a hand angle grinder. trust me. takes off allot of material and doesnt heat up the laminate. the dust- this way can be an issue but it works the best.
For the base. You need water and a cooling cutting agent. A dry belt will just make it worse in the long run when someone goes to give them a wet sand. I have also tried about 7 different types of abrasive belt from several manufacturers, Bar none the best is the hermes zirconia from SVST. Its what you want without any comparison, longevity and quality of cut are the best.
sammer wrote: I'm still a tang on top guy.
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skidesmond
- Posts: 2338
- Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 3:26 pm
- Location: Western Mass, USA
- Contact:
Things I've tried:
Belt sander for sidewall. Like MM says it heats up pretty easily so you need to be careful. But this is the method I currently use. I tried a spindle sander for my drill press. Clogs too easily, not enough surface area. Oscillating spindle sander could better since it has more surface area and larger spindles. The bench top ones are probably no better than using the drill press because the spindles are small. Dust is an issue with any of these methods.
Belt sander for base to remove excess epoxy, I've used 120 grit. I've used a spray bottle to wet the base and then use the belt sander with a light touch. The belt still clogs but gives a better finish then a dry belt. Of course too much water could fry the belt sander.
I've used good 'ol fashion file and/or scraper on the base after the belt sander to remove any tiny hairs.
All these are fine for the DIY'ers.
Even after all this base work I'll still have the ski shop put structure in the base for that professional finish.
Belt sander for sidewall. Like MM says it heats up pretty easily so you need to be careful. But this is the method I currently use. I tried a spindle sander for my drill press. Clogs too easily, not enough surface area. Oscillating spindle sander could better since it has more surface area and larger spindles. The bench top ones are probably no better than using the drill press because the spindles are small. Dust is an issue with any of these methods.
Belt sander for base to remove excess epoxy, I've used 120 grit. I've used a spray bottle to wet the base and then use the belt sander with a light touch. The belt still clogs but gives a better finish then a dry belt. Of course too much water could fry the belt sander.
I've used good 'ol fashion file and/or scraper on the base after the belt sander to remove any tiny hairs.
All these are fine for the DIY'ers.
Even after all this base work I'll still have the ski shop put structure in the base for that professional finish.
If you are good about cutting the the jigsaw or band saw you shouldn't need to do much sidewall sanding. But if you need to remove some material by hand try a corse wood rasp then a 60 grit belt to get down to shiny metal before profiling with the router. The wood rasp removes material pretty quick and easy. a sureform also works well but dulls quickly.
Fighting gravity on a daily basis
www.Whiteroomcustomskis.com
www.Whiteroomcustomskis.com
I've been using the cheap belt sander that I listed to above for quite a few years to remove excess sidewall. (maple)
It works well with 40 or 50 grit belts.
I find it challenging to get a nice square sidewall. So having a square table would make life easier.
Having an adjustable table would make my sidewall bevel a lot more consistent.
I have a grindrite so bases are not a problem.
I've tried using it for sidewalls but it's pretty aggressive even with a 120 grit belt and is pretty easy to mess up.
The frustration screwing up while finishing a pair is something I too familiar with.
I've only been successful 10% of the time using a router on the sidewall.
No matter how careful I am, it ends with an epoxy/woodflour patch somewhere.
sam
It works well with 40 or 50 grit belts.
I find it challenging to get a nice square sidewall. So having a square table would make life easier.
Having an adjustable table would make my sidewall bevel a lot more consistent.
I have a grindrite so bases are not a problem.
I've tried using it for sidewalls but it's pretty aggressive even with a 120 grit belt and is pretty easy to mess up.
The frustration screwing up while finishing a pair is something I too familiar with.
I've only been successful 10% of the time using a router on the sidewall.
No matter how careful I am, it ends with an epoxy/woodflour patch somewhere.
sam
You don't even have a legit signature, nothing to reveal who you are and what you do...
Best of luck to you. (uneva)
Best of luck to you. (uneva)
Sam, I've had great success using the 18 deg sidewall bit on my router table to give an initial profile. Then do a finishing pass with the tilt base router. This really decreases the stress on the tilt base router to cut through all that material making the chance of havering a bearing jump the edge really decrease.
If you are doing a vertical sidewall a regular top bearing pattern bit would work well on a router table.
If you are doing a vertical sidewall a regular top bearing pattern bit would work well on a router table.
Fighting gravity on a daily basis
www.Whiteroomcustomskis.com
www.Whiteroomcustomskis.com
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MadRussian
- Posts: 712
- Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 12:32 pm
- Location: USA
I did initial sanding of sidewall with 6x48 belt Sander dry with no water while belt needed to be cleaned often but it didn't cloud up. My skis have wood sidewall. wouldn't do it again. imo woodworking type of edge Sander much better tool for the job
Can you find on the Craigslist edge Sander? Around here they are pops up once in a while old American-made much better quality and cheaper
Can you find on the Craigslist edge Sander? Around here they are pops up once in a while old American-made much better quality and cheaper
I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.
Thomas A. Edison
Thomas A. Edison
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IslandRider
- Posts: 80
- Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:00 am
- Location: Kelowna BC
Thanks for the input guys. I bought the shitty mastercraft sander, and it got the job done. 50 grit belt looks like it should do 2 pairs before its done, and they're only $5. No complaints with it really, for $90 hard to beat. The way the belt overhangs it looks like I may be able to set up something to run water across the belt too, we'll see. Definitely not planning on touching bases with it, but for sidewalls and tips/tails it will work ok. Used it to clean up the flash from being too chickenshit to cut right up to the edge with a jig saw. I'll get better at that and hopefully won't use it much for skis in the future, but it will be handy to have around. I'd prefer to get something better, but I am out of floor space and needed something I could stash away when not in use. Still going to mount a shitty old router I have to the bench for doing bevels though, I thought maybe I could do it with this, and probably could if I came up with some kind of fence for it, but pretty tricky to get a nice clean edge. Using a flapper wheel/angle grinder will be plan B, but I prefer being able to control the mess a bit. I tried my edge sander but it just wasn't taking material off fast enough.
After cleaning them up you can see how the core shifted in the tips very slightly on the right ski. Left ski is square, although it doesn't look that way in the pictures. FedEX called and apparently Santa is out for delivery today with some bindings. Now if only we could get some snow on the coast.
Pretty much sorted out the problems I had machining the first set of cores on this pair. Gave up on the vacuum hold down for now and glued a few strips of MDF to the tip and tail areas to hold down with screws and support the outer layer of fir to prevent blowouts. These machined awesome, hit go and did something else in the garage for half an hour while they cut. Thickness is identical between the two, and edges stayed intact. Still used vacuum for the base, might stick with that, but screwing down the cores
Going to stick pair #2 in the press tonight.
After cleaning them up you can see how the core shifted in the tips very slightly on the right ski. Left ski is square, although it doesn't look that way in the pictures. FedEX called and apparently Santa is out for delivery today with some bindings. Now if only we could get some snow on the coast.
Pretty much sorted out the problems I had machining the first set of cores on this pair. Gave up on the vacuum hold down for now and glued a few strips of MDF to the tip and tail areas to hold down with screws and support the outer layer of fir to prevent blowouts. These machined awesome, hit go and did something else in the garage for half an hour while they cut. Thickness is identical between the two, and edges stayed intact. Still used vacuum for the base, might stick with that, but screwing down the cores
Going to stick pair #2 in the press tonight.
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IslandRider
- Posts: 80
- Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:00 am
- Location: Kelowna BC
Ya, its a little ridiculous really. Melting more today even I guess, just checked and its 2° and 15cm base mid-mountain apparently. This time last year they had 150+ already. Not a huge Mt. Washington fan, but it beats the boat sometimes. The real burn is that there's hardly any snow in the coast range yet this year. I'm going to have to convince myself a weekend interior run is a good idea pretty soon.
Hey man, congrats on your first build.
I looked at your pictures and had a few thoughts. Your tipspacer design could be used to secure the core in position by maintaining two tipspacers as one piece and leaving a few tabs in place. The tabs could then be used to orientate the tipspacer within the cassette and hence remove the possibility of core shift. Once you have eliminated core shift, you can reduce the tolerance levels on the width and pre-bevel the sidewall.
I looked at your pictures and had a few thoughts. Your tipspacer design could be used to secure the core in position by maintaining two tipspacers as one piece and leaving a few tabs in place. The tabs could then be used to orientate the tipspacer within the cassette and hence remove the possibility of core shift. Once you have eliminated core shift, you can reduce the tolerance levels on the width and pre-bevel the sidewall.