Super Sap CPM? What's the deal...

ApeNatural · Post by **ApeNatural** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:37 pm

I apologize in advance for the probably repeated question, but I have been looking around for quite some time and I am having trouble making any good sense of much of the epoxy talk around here so i decided to clutter the page up more...

Anyways, so I am thinking of going with this:

http://www.entropyresins.com/products/super-sap-cpm

To get me started on my first pair and launch my ski building endeavors.
My questions are the following:

-I was looking at getting the three gallon kit. How many pairs will that last me roughly? And is it worth buying that much at a time or should I go between smaller quantities?

-Does anyone have any experience with the room temperature hardener? I know it is ideal to go with the heated system, but as of now I dont have heat in my press so I was thinking of getting the room temp stuff. will this work or should I bite the bullet and get heat?

Thanks.

threeninethree · Post by **threeninethree** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:56 am

CPM is meant to be used in a heated press 30min@ 180d for cure.
If you use the room temp hardener your looking at 7days@ 77degrees for cure.

If your not using heat try: http://www.entropyresins.com/products/super-sap-1001000

chrismp · Post by **chrismp** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:16 am

The TDS of the CPM system also shows the properties for the 100/1000 system vice versa, which can be a little confusing.
If you order CPM you will get the HVA hardener that needs 180F to cure.
Just order the 100/1000 system...it's the same resin just with the slow hardener.

as for the amount of epoxy needed: i use 0,2-0,25 gal for one snowboard (160cm with 22oz triax)

VBLL · Post by **VBLL** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:09 am

You're supposed to be able to build a least 10 boards with the 3 gallons kit, but the epoxy will be good for about 2 years. After, no garanteed the epoxy will bond as well.

MontuckyMadman · Post by **MontuckyMadman** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:38 am

I thought it was all the same stuff the cpm just has a heat activator in it which gasses toxic VOC BTW, the only toxic part of all the stuff.
I can build 5 pair per 1.5 gallon of 188cm fat skis with 22oz triax with this resin.
You will have to press for over 8 hours under pressure I bet to cure the room temp stuff and then let sit for several days until cutting/flexing.

chrismp · Post by **chrismp** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:08 am

maybe it is, but the TDS has two different names for the hardeners...

ApeNatural · Post by **ApeNatural** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:52 am

So go with the 100/1000 if I'm not using heat?

Thanks guys, this was exactly what I was looking for.

chrismp · Post by **chrismp** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:38 am

exactly! btw, it helps to keep your press warm during pressing even with room temp cure epoxy

MadRussian · Post by **MadRussian** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:31 pm

what about viscosity?

CPM is high viscosity "Super Sap CPM is specifically designed for compression molding processes of composite parts"

100/1000 low viscosity

would under pressure low viscosity product get squeezed out?

VBLL · Post by **VBLL** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:28 pm

I'm not an expert, but i dont think it will be a big issue. It's just make it a little bit easier to impregnate your fiber.

Also, the CPM viscosity will drop when the press will be heated. I think in the end it's pretty much the same.

MadRussian · Post by **MadRussian** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:03 pm

VBLL wrote:I'm not an expert, but i dont think it will be a big issue. It's just make it a little bit easier to impregnate your fiber.

Also, the CPM viscosity will drop when the press will be heated. I think in the end it's pretty much the same.

how about CPM with room temperature 1000 hardener?

chrismp · Post by **chrismp** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:58 pm

that's right...with the CPM viscosity drops as soon as it's heated.

@MadRussian: you're confusing a few things here. All the epoxy systems use the same base epoxy resin called 100! the only difference are the hardeners. so if you order the CPM system, you will get the 100 resin and the CPM hardener, which is always a fast heat curing hardener. The 100 resin /1000 hardener combo is the same resin just with the room temp cure hardener.
there is no CPM system with slow hardener!

Brazen · Post by **Brazen** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:49 am

My rule for epoxy is to weigh all of the "loose" parts for the board, vds,FB,CF etc and match that weight with the resin +10% for my comfort level. Works perfect...parts weigh one pound, mix 18oz resin. This will also give you a quick way to estimate resin costs and know exactly how many pieces you'll get for any given quantity.

chrismp · Post by **chrismp** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 1:25 pm

loose parts = ? (ok, all fibers and vds, but what about inserts, edges, base...? what defines loose?)

Brazen · Post by **Brazen** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 1:58 pm

I just weigh the fibrous materials. I don't weigh core, inserts, edges base or topsheet (I do but for other reasons) to use in this formula as they don't require soaking to wet out. Like I say, it's perfect so far. What defines loose, I guess I meant "wiggly, not crunchy" if you want to get technical and all

"Oh yeah, just weigh the wiggly parts!"

hahahaha

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Super Sap CPM? What's the deal...

Super Sap CPM? What's the deal...