why route the sidewalls?
Moderators: Head Monkey, kelvin, bigKam, skidesmond, chrismp
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doughboyshredder
- Posts: 1354
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why route the sidewalls?
Is there a supposed structural advantage to using a router on the sidewalls? What about different angles? I have had a few issues and would prefer to keep the router away from a finished board. I am finishing another right now and I hand sanded the sidewalls with a sanding block and they look great. Not much of a bevel on them though. Is there a reason that everyone seems to run a router bit down the sidewall?
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MontuckyMadman
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A few shop techs have bitched that my home made boards don't have the edge guide lip thing like on commercial boards. So it doesn't track as well on the edge grinding machine or whatever.
I don't care, sharp edges are a luxury for me.
I also have fought with the router several times over and landed on that laminate router on top of the ski to finish. The whole router table bevel board thing was just a nightmare with camber.
I think its more applicable on skis so when they bang together the sidewall doesn't see a direct impact and more of a glancing blow.
Helps shed some weight also barely.
Makes um look cool from above to more ski like.
I don't care, sharp edges are a luxury for me.
I also have fought with the router several times over and landed on that laminate router on top of the ski to finish. The whole router table bevel board thing was just a nightmare with camber.
I think its more applicable on skis so when they bang together the sidewall doesn't see a direct impact and more of a glancing blow.
Helps shed some weight also barely.
Makes um look cool from above to more ski like.
You can come up with cool marketing decals too if you route your sidewalls like this one from liberty skis
seriously though on a snowboard I would think a true vertical sidewall would be strongest to support the edges and as montucky said you don't have the trouble of whacking two planks together like skiers
seriously though on a snowboard I would think a true vertical sidewall would be strongest to support the edges and as montucky said you don't have the trouble of whacking two planks together like skiers
Don't wait up, I'm off to kill Summer....
The main reason is for edge sharpening and bevelling.
When you do your edges, you add a base and side bevel based on usage (I do my slalom board at .5° base, 3° edge, which is, to be honest, "quite extreme") - if you're adding any side bevel and you haven't pulled your sidewalls back, you're gonna end up trying to file not only the edges, but the sidewalls as well. I guess this might be a problem for machine tuning, but it's certainly a problem if you're tuning by hand.
You might be able to get away with just using a sidewall plane before tuning, though.
Tognar have some useful info, look for "edge beveling and filing" under "learn" (can't post a direct link yet, account too young :).
simon
When you do your edges, you add a base and side bevel based on usage (I do my slalom board at .5° base, 3° edge, which is, to be honest, "quite extreme") - if you're adding any side bevel and you haven't pulled your sidewalls back, you're gonna end up trying to file not only the edges, but the sidewalls as well. I guess this might be a problem for machine tuning, but it's certainly a problem if you're tuning by hand.
You might be able to get away with just using a sidewall plane before tuning, though.
Tognar have some useful info, look for "edge beveling and filing" under "learn" (can't post a direct link yet, account too young :).
simon
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skidesmond
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I don't think there's any structural advantage to routing the sidewall.
I agree about the chipping and beveling when tuning. Beveling the side wall is to reduce the chipping on the top sheet when the skis bag together, so it glances off. I'm currently using a 22.5 degree bit for the side wall. I still get some chipping so I'm going to try a 30 degree bit on the next pair.
When tuning the edge of the ski/board ( I use a 1 degree on the base 2 degrees on the edge) chances are you'll be filing some of the side wall even if it's beveled. If it's a plastic side wall maybe not such a big deal but a wood sidewall like I use may concern some folks because you'll be taking off any kind of finish (poly or epoxy) that you put on it. That was my main reason to ask the group about wood sidewalls in viewtopic.php?t=2279
I noticed on my volks that has a cap construction there is a plastic lip, looks like an extra layer of p-tex, that sits on top of the metal edge. Looks like it purpose is to prevent the sidewall from being filed off when beveling the side of the metal edge when tuning.
As for routing a consistent bevel on the sidewall it can be a bit tricky depending on the setup. I use spring clamps to clamp the ski to my work table so that the edge hangs slightly over the edge of the table. I use a plunge router and follow the metal edge w/ a 22.5 bit w/ a bearing. I slowly adjust the routers depth as I go from tip/tail. Kind of scary doing this way. If the bearing rolls off the bottom of the edge you'll wreck the ski/board. Definitely need safety glasses! I really need a better/safer way to do this.
I agree about the chipping and beveling when tuning. Beveling the side wall is to reduce the chipping on the top sheet when the skis bag together, so it glances off. I'm currently using a 22.5 degree bit for the side wall. I still get some chipping so I'm going to try a 30 degree bit on the next pair.
When tuning the edge of the ski/board ( I use a 1 degree on the base 2 degrees on the edge) chances are you'll be filing some of the side wall even if it's beveled. If it's a plastic side wall maybe not such a big deal but a wood sidewall like I use may concern some folks because you'll be taking off any kind of finish (poly or epoxy) that you put on it. That was my main reason to ask the group about wood sidewalls in viewtopic.php?t=2279
I noticed on my volks that has a cap construction there is a plastic lip, looks like an extra layer of p-tex, that sits on top of the metal edge. Looks like it purpose is to prevent the sidewall from being filed off when beveling the side of the metal edge when tuning.
As for routing a consistent bevel on the sidewall it can be a bit tricky depending on the setup. I use spring clamps to clamp the ski to my work table so that the edge hangs slightly over the edge of the table. I use a plunge router and follow the metal edge w/ a 22.5 bit w/ a bearing. I slowly adjust the routers depth as I go from tip/tail. Kind of scary doing this way. If the bearing rolls off the bottom of the edge you'll wreck the ski/board. Definitely need safety glasses! I really need a better/safer way to do this.
Angled sidewalls look great. They also make it nicer on your hands to grab and carry a pair of skis from the car to the lifts. And as stated above, it also makes it easier to tune them on an edge grinding machine.
Here is my simple method using a router:
These skis have black UHMW sidewalls. The cutter is a 22.5 degree angle bit with 1/2" shank.
This router is mounted on a cantilevered aluminum plate. The ski is pushed beneath it, riding on a curved strip of MDF. The guide bearing mounted on the end of the router bit follows the metal ski edge. The MDF strip is simply shimmed up to create a high area beneath the router. The set-up is clamped to the middle of my table saw and the ends hang off both sides. It's really easy to maneuver the ski with this method.
Cheers,
-S
Here is my simple method using a router:
These skis have black UHMW sidewalls. The cutter is a 22.5 degree angle bit with 1/2" shank.
This router is mounted on a cantilevered aluminum plate. The ski is pushed beneath it, riding on a curved strip of MDF. The guide bearing mounted on the end of the router bit follows the metal ski edge. The MDF strip is simply shimmed up to create a high area beneath the router. The set-up is clamped to the middle of my table saw and the ends hang off both sides. It's really easy to maneuver the ski with this method.
Cheers,
-S
Last edited by SHIF on Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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skidesmond
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Check my post on this page http://www.skibuilders.com/phpBB2/viewt ... ght=#14407
(mid-page)
It's almost free (made out of scrap wood) and works just perfectly !
(mid-page)
It's almost free (made out of scrap wood) and works just perfectly !
A bad day skiing is always better than a good one at work...
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knightsofnii
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- Location: NJ USA
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sidewalls are routered at an angle on snowboards because one of the big companies did it, and it caught on and became cool, then sidewall technology was the way to go instead of cap construction for a million reasons, main one being they were able to convince people it was worth buying over cap.
Do you have to angle them? no.
I even have a nitro board with a curved cut into it, i forget what bit that's called, the opposite of a "roundover" bit, where it cuts curve into the sidewall.
I'd like to try roundover to make stuff nice and smooth.
And as long as the metal of the edge is clear of sidewall material (SOME of it has to be moved away from the edge for tuning reasons) there should be no reason why any shop guy should have trouble. Either the shop guy is a tool and being cranky about doing a bad job, or you left epoxy or excess sw sticking out which prevented the belt/stone from hitting the edge.
I know sanding sidewalls down clean on a grinder or anything can be a bitch. Do it quick on the sidewall and base to make both smooth, get your base flattened, then go right to routering. Then back to the grinder on the edge, that will free up lots of sidewall from having to be ground away, then when your edge is nice and clean, router again.
I have a router table I built and posted up here. I also built a hands-free routering table, but lately have just been using a hand held router and flattening the board out with clamps.
If you want to push your board into a stationary router, most important part is having some type of clamp/wheel mechanism that will hold the board DOWN so the router cant pull it up over the bearing and eat it. But I like that over the top method, but I'd add something that provided downforce.
But nobody said you cant sand them, if you can get good at that, that's probably the way to go!
Do you have to angle them? no.
I even have a nitro board with a curved cut into it, i forget what bit that's called, the opposite of a "roundover" bit, where it cuts curve into the sidewall.
I'd like to try roundover to make stuff nice and smooth.
And as long as the metal of the edge is clear of sidewall material (SOME of it has to be moved away from the edge for tuning reasons) there should be no reason why any shop guy should have trouble. Either the shop guy is a tool and being cranky about doing a bad job, or you left epoxy or excess sw sticking out which prevented the belt/stone from hitting the edge.
I know sanding sidewalls down clean on a grinder or anything can be a bitch. Do it quick on the sidewall and base to make both smooth, get your base flattened, then go right to routering. Then back to the grinder on the edge, that will free up lots of sidewall from having to be ground away, then when your edge is nice and clean, router again.
I have a router table I built and posted up here. I also built a hands-free routering table, but lately have just been using a hand held router and flattening the board out with clamps.
If you want to push your board into a stationary router, most important part is having some type of clamp/wheel mechanism that will hold the board DOWN so the router cant pull it up over the bearing and eat it. But I like that over the top method, but I'd add something that provided downforce.
But nobody said you cant sand them, if you can get good at that, that's probably the way to go!
Doug
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doughboyshredder
- Posts: 1354
- Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:37 pm
The shop tech I use (Nick at Snowboard Connection), says that the angle or finish of the sidewall doesn't matter at all for edge grinding purposes. He said that they use a sidewall planer if necessary to remove sidewall material before grinding. In his opinion it's a purely cosmetic decision.
I sanded a nice slightly beveled slightly rounded finish in to the sidewalls of this last board and they look outstanding. I am picking the board up tomorrow and will post pics as soon as I get them back.
Thanks for the ideas!
I sanded a nice slightly beveled slightly rounded finish in to the sidewalls of this last board and they look outstanding. I am picking the board up tomorrow and will post pics as soon as I get them back.
Thanks for the ideas!
Hi. The good folk at the Makita Co. Have the answer for an angled routered edge http://www.makita.com/en-us/Modules/Too ... spx?ID=448. We have a similar tool in Australia same base different motor. Works ace with a top bearing bit. C.
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doughboyshredder
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- Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:37 pm
That's how I have been doing it, but if you slip you are completely screwed. I slipped on the last board. Luckily I didn't go all the way through the sidewall and I was able to repair it with some black epoxy / bondo type stuff. I just want to cut back on potential build ruining steps.Jekul wrote:I just tried this method over the weekend, and have to say it worked VERy well. Thanks to Happy Monkey Snowboards for the idea and pictures.
On the Kingswood video, at 3:56-4:22, there is a router with a plastic strip in front of it. By providing a single contact point between the router table and the ski base, this strip makes it so you don't have to overcome camber by pressing down to keep the skis from being eaten by the router bit.
I haven't tried this yet but it looks like a good way to avoid damage from the dreaded camber induced bounce.
The techniques that involve running the router along the base of the ski scare me because I almost always tilt the router when I have one running in my hand.
http://kingswoodskis.com/home/factory-construction
I haven't tried this yet but it looks like a good way to avoid damage from the dreaded camber induced bounce.
The techniques that involve running the router along the base of the ski scare me because I almost always tilt the router when I have one running in my hand.
http://kingswoodskis.com/home/factory-construction