Thoughts?
I tried to get some solid analysis of the claims and technology going on Newschoolers, but of course everyone on there thought it would be beneficial to post that they will be a sick ski, then procede to 'explain' by restating marketing claims without any actual description of how this will actually work in practice.
Here are a few links if you don't know about them:
http://www.lineskis.com/stories/78 it takes a while to actually start talking about them, so you can fast forward a couple minutes if you don't want to hear about bowling.
http://www.sbcskier.com/news?news_id=75&uniqid=983
http://grousepark.com/2009/02/13/dissec ... afterbang/
Line Afterbang - Made like a skateboard
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doughboyshredder
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again, Lib did it first.
On the Dark series lib uses horizontally laminated wood directly underfoot. They also have a GNU deck that is all horizontally laminated core. It's one of their cheaper models.
Lib calls it top pop.
prolly mostly marketing imo, but I have consistently thought about using veneer horizontally laminated on a vertically laminated core to reinforce certain areas, but then you have to compensate with a 3d topsheet, so who knows.
edit, just read the sbc article, surprising construction technique. No sidewalls. 7 ply? reinforced with glass.
quite interesting.
On the Dark series lib uses horizontally laminated wood directly underfoot. They also have a GNU deck that is all horizontally laminated core. It's one of their cheaper models.
Lib calls it top pop.
prolly mostly marketing imo, but I have consistently thought about using veneer horizontally laminated on a vertically laminated core to reinforce certain areas, but then you have to compensate with a 3d topsheet, so who knows.
edit, just read the sbc article, surprising construction technique. No sidewalls. 7 ply? reinforced with glass.
quite interesting.
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MontuckyMadman
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heh, the Seattle prototyping facility has the same Eastman machine and they are running the same software as the seat cover factory has. I should really do some die cut, if not for my bases someone else's.
Thought I had read that this plywood approach made the ski really damp but also kinda dead.
The chick said some thing like a "ten string carbon oly band" ?? Carbon and who what?
This layup looks accomplishable for the home brewer and look where they put the rubber... doesn't look like there is any directly on top the edges, could just be committed in editing, and other vds in between layers of veneer for bonding/maybe actual dampening?
anyone have any idea what thickness of maple veneer they might be running?
Good find
Thought I had read that this plywood approach made the ski really damp but also kinda dead.
The chick said some thing like a "ten string carbon oly band" ?? Carbon and who what?
This layup looks accomplishable for the home brewer and look where they put the rubber... doesn't look like there is any directly on top the edges, could just be committed in editing, and other vds in between layers of veneer for bonding/maybe actual dampening?
anyone have any idea what thickness of maple veneer they might be running?
Good find
very interesting!
hahaha the line's seattle prototyping facility... aka K2...
it seems like this would be a hell of a lot easier to make... at least like they said, less waste and less time waiting for glue to dry when making the core.
the carbon oly band is something they've been doing for years.
they're just strips of carbon that run the length of the ski, i believe top and bottom... for sure on top. the both pairs that i have which have the oly band have 5 strands on top. i can take pictures if you'd like to see.
so are they saying 10, 5 on top and 5 on bottom?
hahaha the line's seattle prototyping facility... aka K2...
it seems like this would be a hell of a lot easier to make... at least like they said, less waste and less time waiting for glue to dry when making the core.
the carbon oly band is something they've been doing for years.
they're just strips of carbon that run the length of the ski, i believe top and bottom... for sure on top. the both pairs that i have which have the oly band have 5 strands on top. i can take pictures if you'd like to see.
so are they saying 10, 5 on top and 5 on bottom?
im bored, so i took pictures...
looking at the layup video again, it looks like the ollie band is just on top.
as for the veneer thickness, they're using 3 layers of full length. i would assume those would need to add up to around 2mm at the tip and tail right? but then if you're only using 7 layers, that would mean the thickness of the core (only the wood) under foot would be 4.66mm which doesn't seem right at all. i'll just shut up now.
looking at the layup video again, it looks like the ollie band is just on top.
as for the veneer thickness, they're using 3 layers of full length. i would assume those would need to add up to around 2mm at the tip and tail right? but then if you're only using 7 layers, that would mean the thickness of the core (only the wood) under foot would be 4.66mm which doesn't seem right at all. i'll just shut up now.
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MontuckyMadman
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MontuckyMadman
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twizzstyle
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- Location: Kenmore, Wa USA
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doughboyshredder
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A few things about this. I skated a lot when I was younger, and skateboards always delam if you skate in the rain. Not having sidewalls and then claiming the skis are stronger than normal skis seems questionable.
No topsheet? same issue. Obviously it can be coated with urethane or what not, but that can not be more protected from abuse than a normal topsheet.
Horizontally laminated wood doesn't flex consistently and skateboards break all the time.
No topsheet? same issue. Obviously it can be coated with urethane or what not, but that can not be more protected from abuse than a normal topsheet.
Horizontally laminated wood doesn't flex consistently and skateboards break all the time.
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MontuckyMadman
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doughboyshredder
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doubtful. Most skiers that buy their skis don't use their equipment more than 10 times a year. If using this layup saves them 40% per pair, over 10% can be returned and they are still doing good.MontuckyMadman wrote:all of what you say is true. Don't you think they have been hammering these things for a year before they make these claims?
If i was to lay strips of uni carbon how would I keep them all straight if I don't have them prelaid in some other material like in the vid?
As far as the carbon is concerned once it is wetted out it pretty much stays where you put it. I have used Carbon in all of my boards so far. Carbon gives a snappiness to the pop that I like.
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twizzstyle
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Yeah you can lay it pretty straight.MontuckyMadman wrote:all of what you say is true. Don't you think they have been hammering these things for a year before they make these claims?
If i was to lay strips of uni carbon how would I keep them all straight if I don't have them prelaid in some other material like in the vid?
Also I'm pretty sure snowboard materials sells already cured carbon strips in a sheet of fiberglass, which is exactly how line does it.
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twizzstyle
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- Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:25 pm
- Location: Kenmore, Wa USA
http://www.snowboardmaterials.com/pages/materials.htm
"NEW - PRECURED Fiberglass sheets with Carbon Fiber Stringers. The ultimate in performance - pretensioned, Pre-cured fiberglass with Carbon Stringers.White Cellulose surface on one side (silk screen) 12.5" wide Specify # of metres as quantity - stiffer than 22oz Triax but better 90 degree, torsional, and tensile performance. NOT sanded - will require sanding one side for bonding.. Use for medioum/stiff boards.Can also be used for skis. Perfect for gloss finish with no Fiberglass texture "print through" "
"NEW - PRECURED Fiberglass sheets with Carbon Fiber Stringers. The ultimate in performance - pretensioned, Pre-cured fiberglass with Carbon Stringers.White Cellulose surface on one side (silk screen) 12.5" wide Specify # of metres as quantity - stiffer than 22oz Triax but better 90 degree, torsional, and tensile performance. NOT sanded - will require sanding one side for bonding.. Use for medioum/stiff boards.Can also be used for skis. Perfect for gloss finish with no Fiberglass texture "print through" "
Well, they claim to have been testing them for quite a while, and soaked the skis for extended periods of time. I have to agree though, I don't think the first batch will be too great. I do think it may lead to some future changes in ski layup, but maybe not.
These skis aren't targeted to the vacation skier though, so I doubt they expect these skis to be ridden 10 days a season on groomers.
That pre-cured fiberglass is kind of interesting. I thought about using pre-preg stuff, or even doing this pre-cured approach myself, printing on top and clear-coating it. I still might do it, but wonder about the weight. It is smooth, so I'm guessing all the voids are filled in with resin and it is not pressed. This would result in a lot more resin than in conventionally laid up skis. I do want some uni carbon in the glass though, but I'm having a hard time getting any that has the appropriate weight and weave.
These skis aren't targeted to the vacation skier though, so I doubt they expect these skis to be ridden 10 days a season on groomers.
That pre-cured fiberglass is kind of interesting. I thought about using pre-preg stuff, or even doing this pre-cured approach myself, printing on top and clear-coating it. I still might do it, but wonder about the weight. It is smooth, so I'm guessing all the voids are filled in with resin and it is not pressed. This would result in a lot more resin than in conventionally laid up skis. I do want some uni carbon in the glass though, but I'm having a hard time getting any that has the appropriate weight and weave.