Industry Directions in SKi Design

For discussions related to ski/snowboard construction/design methods and techniques.

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burny
Posts: 50
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:25 am
Location: Bavaria

Post by burny »

tested the katana last weekend ... its a fine ski, but the base material was super super thin, like paper. Maybe it was just the demo ski and the final version is better, but like this, its pretty useless. Skied gread however.
hafte
Posts: 204
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:40 am

Post by hafte »

Plywood, that’s some funny stuff. Talk about arrogance and I think a little fear from the big names. I’m totally stoked about the response I got from the first two pairs of skis I made. I was out with a friend, Scotty, on both pair one day. He’s on the really stiff second pair and I was on the Doods. He’s a phenomenal skier. He skis every day as a mountain guide or he’s out on the lift service back country that we have here. And at 170 lbs can really handle the second pair very well. We skied on every kind of hill aspect we could get to with all of the changing snow conditions that involves. From ski packed moguls to semi sun baked crud to sort of powder. He was just flying through some of the stuff that was bucking me around on those skis the week before. He tried the Doods and wants a pair. The others are a real handful, but fun in the right conditions treacherous in the wrong conditions. The sweet spot is so narrow that if you get behind they run away from you and dump you on your ass.

Later that day we run into to guy he knows at the top of the Hidden Lake Express and he goes “dude do you mind letting this guy try out the Doods.” Its one of those days where the snow is a bit old and difficult to manage, but the snow has stayed cold so it was OK. The Doods are kicking butt going through anything and everything with no problem. The guy is a weekend mountain host and a tele skier and he is a good skier at that. He was on a Dynastar 8000 series ski that day. I get him on the Doods and he goes for a run. Scotty takes him down off of the cornice at the top across the terrain park into some tough to ski low angle crud (we did several runs that day cause its fun). They get back to the top and he wants to go again. I tell him sure go for it. They go do the same thing. He gets back to the top and tells me that he has not been off pieste for two weeks on his Dynastars due to the snow conditions. “I’ll trade you straight across for those Dynastars.” Well I can’t let these skis go cause there are some issues with the cosmetics and I would be without for too long. He wants a pair.

The next guy is from New Jersey and has a condo on the mountain and gets out here for 25-40 days a year depending on the snow conditions. He skis on a pair of K2 Work Stinx. Another good tele skier so I leave the skies with him for a week or two. He got out with Scotty on the steep and deep of James Peak (part of the lift service back country) on a good day and had a blast. Now I have to make a pair for him.

The other people that have tried them from a few runs to several days all like the ride, but wanted some but a bit shorter in length. I’ll have my hands full next fall working up a set of demos. I may even be able to get my seasons pass paid for that way next year. I kind of laugh cause my partner in all of this (he was a car sales man) has one guy asking when are you guys going to be selling some of these? He’s so stoked about a custom ski… I mean he hasn’t tried them yet and he’s all about getting a pair!

All I can say is watch out who you let try out your skis. You may find yourself busier then you want to be. I’m not saying that I/we can compete with the big names, and who wants to, but the folks that get skis from us are going to have some of the best rides out there, high tech or not, and will really appreciate the custom aspect. A piece of the owner goes into every pair made. How cool is that!

Hafte
powdercow
Posts: 76
Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2006 1:35 pm
Location: Orem, Utah

Post by powdercow »

Powder has a terrain park??? I have been gone to long.

Sounds like you hit a home run with the doods hafte, good on ya man.
I agree with most that finding customers for skis would not be hard. One guy on the lift found out I made my skis and asked "how much for my own pair?" I laughed because he hadn't even ridden them. I don't know if I ever want to go the business route but it is nice to know that there is certainly demand for it.
- Ben
akskier
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:44 pm

Something to be said for big guys...

Post by akskier »

I have been riding the 198cm Atomic REX and the Big Daddies for 5 seasons now and I think there is something to be said about their hi tech gadgetry.
With approx 250 days on each pair I have not lost a half mil of camber, and the capped sidewalls have survived a beating. If anything, I am trying to simulate the durability and actual performance of the big companies. I don't know about 'Beta technology/carbon tubes' and all that so wood and fiberglass will have to do. Make them thick I guess.

I hope there aren't any 'racerphobes' out there... but who is really putting the product to the test, tele Joe making sweet backcountry turns or Ol Herman Maier at 100mph on the ice on a tried and true ski? I know, I know, different skis for different skiing. I am not a racer but I try to ski like one, so I figure I should build basically a fat race ski, like the Big Daddy or the Rossi Squads etc. As a developing cottage industry we should be looking at what has already been done and try to understand why it is done that way, there are probably some good reasons.

But that is just me ;)
powdercow
Posts: 76
Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2006 1:35 pm
Location: Orem, Utah

Post by powdercow »

Saturday I got to demo 8 different skis (next years models) from Line, Dynastar, Head, Fischer, Scott, and Rossignol. I then finished the day on the remounted (back 3 cm) Ruby Soho's. It was a good change to get a "gut check" for where the industry is going and remind me what factory skis feel like.

I ranked all of the skis on a scale of 1 to 10 and the breakout is below:

10 Dynastar Legend Pro XXL - like aladin said "a whole new world".
8 Rossignol Scratch Steeze - so ugly but very solid all around performer.
7 Rubies and Fischer Watea 84 - liked them in different ways
5 Head IM 88 - pretty average all around
4 Head m103 - might be me but I was literally scared with them on ice.
3 Scott P4 - wanted to like them but couldn't, might have been the tune.
2 Line prophet 100 - could not figure this ski out, also had a bad tune.

The scale is more just for a relative comparison of skis for the day so no one should think that the Prophet is a worthless ski.

The two things I took away were:
1. I am pretty darn happy with how the rubies stacked up. Skiing them back to back against productions skis really gave me a feel for what they are lacking and what I could do better.
2. The legend pro XXL absolutely rocked my world. As much as I want to start trying original shapes I have to try to duplicate this ski first. It will be a fun challenge to try to get the same feel.

I couldn't really pull any industry trends from what I felt, except that everything is getting wider (obvious) but hopefully this info helps out a little.
- Ben
Alex
Posts: 105
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 7:41 am
Location: Munich (Germany)

Post by Alex »

Two weeks ago i have been on a skitest event too. I can definately agree on your ranking of the Dynastar XXL. It's the best conventional shape ski i've ever tried - just awesome how it performs under all conditions from hard stuff to powder.

For the soft conditions i personally prefer those reverse sidecut designs. I tried the Armada ARG which immediately put a fat smile on my face (as the other fellows reported). The surfing, sliding feeling is the best you can get :D

Riding the ARG was quite similar to my own design you can see here:

http://www.skibuilders.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=605

The most significant difference is less edge grip and better sliding with the ARG.

Putting together the results from testing i decided to go for a midfat ski for soft powder touring with reverse sidecut and rocker for my next design. To get enough flotation i reduced the amount of reverse sidecut in the shovel area.

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bigKam
Site Admin
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Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 5:15 pm
Location: Park City, Utah
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Post by bigKam »

you know what we need to do? for each commerical ski we like (in terms of shape), visit the shop where they sell the ski, roll out a long-enough sheet of butcher paper, place the ski on it, trace it's profile, then report back here to add it to a database. (wait, we might be violating some proprietary law -- never mind.) last time i tested skis i was on the Atomic Kalis (i think the spelling is right), 185 cm. i loved its shape, and everything else about the ski. i wanted so bad to copy the sidecut shape, and was very, very tempted when i was at the flagship REI store to trace its shape on a couple paperbags.
rockaukum
Posts: 558
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2006 9:23 am
Location: Placerville area

Post by rockaukum »

BigKam,
Ask and you shall receive! I know where and how.
rockaukum
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