Trying to show off the core this season...

RYM Experimentals · Post by **RYM Experimentals** » Sat Sep 27, 2014 12:56 pm

Hope everyone had a good summer and have started building again. We have started to fire off a couple new decks and were trying to preserve the look of the core rather than covering it up with a graphic. Here's a few pics...

Curious to know what you all think about the clear look that shows the core. Should we keep playing around with the idea or go back to graphics and topsheets? The coloring on the cores is just stain.

Thanks and happy building.

MontuckyMadman · Post by **MontuckyMadman** » Sat Sep 27, 2014 1:37 pm

glass looks dryish, what resin and temps and time and pressures are you using?
I like the idea and have mixed results myself.

RYM Experimentals · Post by **RYM Experimentals** » Sat Sep 27, 2014 1:48 pm

Were using marine grade resin from Tap Plastic with a slow hardener. We press them on a vacuum press and have them under a bunch of heat lamps for now. Were in the process of ordering up a heat blanket so that should help a bit.

I thought the glass looked a little dry too. Any ideas?

MontuckyMadman · Post by **MontuckyMadman** » Sat Sep 27, 2014 2:06 pm

high pressure, fast cure.
higher viscosity resin for your technic maybe.
I have no idea how the tap resin behaves or if its suited for compression molding.
Are you getting good wet out during prep?
usually this is done a separate table

RYM Experimentals · Post by **RYM Experimentals** » Sat Sep 27, 2014 2:25 pm

My vacuum pump is pulling 29-29.5 in/Hg so that's about as high as I can get it. The tap resin has pretty good viscosity but I may be using the wrong hardener. I like the resin because I can just swing by my local store and pick it up so I don't have to order it. Ill try the faster hardener, that may help. If that doesn't work, Ill try some new resins.

And we do get good wet out during layup but its worth a try to do it on a different table then move it over to the layup; it would be less messy.

I'm hoping the new heat blanket will help out too. I think your right that the resin isn't curing fast enough and its getting pulled out.

Thanks for the tips.

gav wa · Post by **gav wa** » Sun Sep 28, 2014 12:56 am

When I press a board without a topsheet I get exactly the same looking result. I've tried a couple of different resins and I have 2 heat blankets. Ive done a few test pieces and can't find a way to get consistent good results.
Goz and a few others have had good results but others have used clear topsheet material to get the right result.
Maybe try with a clear topsheet then you can see if you have a problem with your process or if it is just when you try a naked top.
Im going with a clear topsheet next time as I think bare fibreglass is a liitle too easy to get damaged around the sidewalls.

gozaimaas · Post by **gozaimaas** » Sun Sep 28, 2014 2:03 am

Ive pressed one board with no top sheet with good results, there are some imperfections but they are due to the weave of the fibre not being perfect.
I think a clear top sheet is the best way to go but I will be using this no top sheet method for splits to keep the weight down.
I should note I use a very fast cure, 15 min ramp up to 100°c then hold for 10 mins.

RYM Experimentals · Post by **RYM Experimentals** » Sun Sep 28, 2014 8:54 am

The decks do have a topsheet. We've been using Crown Plastic's Duravision material. Its OK, cuts easy and is kinda hard to work out any air bubbles under it but if you epoxy the bottom side of the material 1st and your patient, seems to work pretty good.

I've never tried IsoSports materials, I hear they are better than Crown?

Huck Pitueee · Post by **Huck Pitueee** » Sun Sep 28, 2014 5:43 pm

Layers of 6 oz glass get a clear look. You can orient the fibers how you like. Hit the back arrow to see the photos I'm thinking of,

twizzstyle · Post by **twizzstyle** » Sun Sep 28, 2014 8:42 pm

Miller Studios in Auburn has awesome clear nylon (I can't remember the manufacturer...). I've used it on a few skis now and it's my favorite, glassy smooth and crystal clear. I've had no problem getting all of the bubbles out.

I used to get QCM epoxy locally, but then switched to Entropy and QCM changed companies to Forrest or whatever... you might still be able to pick it up from them?

You might also check out Fiberlay in Seattle for epoxy. They've got a much better selection - and much better knowledge - for composites than Tap Plastics. Tap is good for some stuff, but for composites I always go Fiberlay. I've been using their proglas epoxy for years (just not in skis)

Richuk · Post by **Richuk** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 11:01 am

Have you factored in the condition of the fibre before pressing. Storing it in the airing cupboard and or put it on the heat blanket in advance of use might solve this problem for you.

Its like putting welding rods in the oven in advance of use, you get better flow )

gav wa · Post by **gav wa** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 4:23 am

Also just noticed while looking at that glass it doesn't look like a weave. Is that biax/triax or is it double bias?
I've found none weave glass like double bias to give this issue more often.

RYM Experimentals · Post by **RYM Experimentals** » Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:41 pm

Its 20oz Triax although when I look close at the glass I have in the shop; on one side you can clearly see the weave and on the other it looks like double bias. But honestly, it is Triax... here's the description from Fiberglass Supply...

SKU: C74-4325
20oz Warp Triaxial E-Glass 50" wide

0 degree triaxial e-glass great for snowboards, kiteboards, wakeboards, and skis, and skateboards. Triaxial e-glass, commonly referred to as triax, consists of three layers, a unidirectional layer going the length of the fabric (0 degrees), and two bias layers (+/- 45 degrees), this allows you to build a part with stiffness and strength in the length and torsional stiffness from the 45's

I see to that they now offer this glass in 14 inches wide rather than 50" so you don't have to order a 50" roll and cut it up too. That's sweet, I hate cutting glass.

And I looked a few other of my boards, on a couple of them, the glass doesn't show like this so maybe if I put the weave side up it will look better.

RYM Experimentals · Post by **RYM Experimentals** » Thu Oct 02, 2014 7:16 pm

Wow, great knowledge on this site. You all gave us some really good ideas to move forward with. This thread got a bit off topic so Ill ask again what everyone thinks of the 'naked' look where you can see through to the core. Look past the fiberglass issues, we'll fix that with time but is the idea sound? Or should we go back to graphics? Here's a comparison of an older graphic board we made back when we were running under the Chair2 name...
Image quality sucks but you get the idea.

Thanks, -D

twizzstyle · Post by **twizzstyle** » Thu Oct 02, 2014 7:37 pm

I'm a HUGE fan of some sort of minimalist graphic over a bare core. On the only pair I made last year I did a clear top, with graphics sublimated, over a bamboo veneer. I didn't want to have any of the issues you're talking about, so although I do have bamboo cores, it's covered by triax fiberglass, then bamboo veneer, then the clear topsheet. I also have ptex sidewalls, and didn't want to see that under the topsheet.

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Trying to show off the core this season...

Trying to show off the core this season...