Ski building awesomeness 12/13

[skimann20]

I see someone didn't do a very good job lining up their graphics on the tails in the layup... tsk tsk (I've done that plenty of times)

Ahhhh not to fast there! actually I ordered the top sheets to be made at 187cm (skis are at 183) so something ether went wrong with the photo layup or the printing process. I didn't figure it out until I was doing my pre-layup... arghhhh so i just went for it. if i scale my ski down to a 178 these would just make it.

Shift: I really like your router bridge. great idea! I remember your ski with the wood sidewalls from "back in the day" I think those look so good. It's on my bucket list to try. very classy.

Jekul, Vinman, Skidesmond: thank you for the very useful information. I ended up taking a mix of all your info and came up with a hybrid. I drove down to Rocker (25% off on router bits today) and picked up the Rockler version of this:


then picked up one of these:
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page ... te=ROCKLER

I ended up sanding the height of the guide bushing down to the height of the edge . I then put the router bit slightly higher than the the top of the edge and routed with the base up. They turned out great.

Right now by babies are at the ski shop getting tuned and mounted. okay I'm getting raped and need to figure out how to base grid these skis on my own. (by bases were very flat, i was happy with that)

Skidesmond, I'll get more photos on Weds when I pick them up.

I do have one more story. When I walked into the ski shop with my skis the guy that works there is a "self proclaimed guru" when it comes to skis. He looks at my skis and says "who makes those. now I know my skis and I've never seen those. made in the usa, not made in china! Apocalypse, those are bad ass." okay so the shit eating grin on my face could not be held. "Well I did" it was total awesomeness!

thanks to all of you for the all the help!

[MontuckyMadman]

I have foind the subbed pbt from coda to shrink more than the nylon from miller

[Cornice]

WOW yeah the graphics are great. Whos the artist?
I also like the jack on the top mold.
I cant wait to see more!

[skidesmond]

I see someone didn't do a very good job lining up their graphics on the tails in the layup... tsk tsk (I've done that plenty of times)

......
Right now by babies are at the ski shop getting tuned and mounted. okay I'm getting raped and need to figure out how to base grid these skis on my own. (by bases were very flat, i was happy with that)
.....
I do have one more story. When I walked into the ski shop with my skis the guy that works there is a "self proclaimed guru" when it comes to skis. He looks at my skis and says "who makes those. now I know my skis and I've never seen those. made in the usa, not made in china! Apocalypse, those are bad ass." okay so the shit eating grin on my face could not be held. "Well I did" it was total awesomeness!

thanks to all of you for the all the help!

I've been using a belt sander w/ 120grit followed by 220grit using a very light touch. Just enough to remove the epoxy. eventually I bring them to a ski shop but it's good enough to test them on the snow.

I experienced the same thing the first time I brought my skis in for a tuning.... They were a flame pair I made, the 2 guys swore dynastar made them but kept looking at them... Finally I told them I made them... shit eating grin followed. One of the guys at the shop used to follow the forum, not sure if he does anymore.

[twizzstyle]

Just wait until you're at the mountain - you'll have to explain them on every single chair ride. It never gets old

[skimann20]

I just got off the phone with ski shop. They said that they are not sure about grinding the base. They said that the edges are curved in and they are worried about taking too much material off. Now when I checked them with my straight edge at home there was no light coming through at the spots that I checked (where there was not any epoxy on the edge. So this might get interesting. I feel like I’ve read this error happening before somewhere on this site. Has anyone ground through a pair of skis? I’m sure it could happen if you took enough off. Let’s say that he is right.
1.) How could the edges turn down?
a. I rabbeted the sidewalls.
b. Pressed at 55psi
c. The base and edge were nuts flat before I pressed it. At least I thought it was.
2.) I wonder if there is a layer of epoxy on the edge that he isn’t seeing and that’s why he thinks they are sitting concave…
a. In his past life, he worked at Vokl for their R&D group so I’m thinking this is a long shot.

O the suspense until I get off of work.

I think if the ski is truly crap then I’ll bring them back home, do a light sanding with a belt sander, like skidesmond suggests, and see at least how the flex is.

Also, my buddy did the graphics for the top sheet. All the props go to him for the design.

[twizzstyle]

You don't have a lot of room for error with base flatness. But you basically have the base thickness you can grind away to try and get it flat, ~1.2mm or whatever. Obviously if you have to grind that much off, the base will be prone to damage, but I imagine they can probably get them flat. It's just a pain for the ski shop to have to grind your skis flat since it will take so many passes. That's not the normal work they do, tuning production skis that are already basically flat.

It would probably be best to get them as flat as you can at home with a belt sander before taking them in.

[vinman]

A dry belt might get too hot. Try hand sanding using a 1" dowel with sand paper wrapped around it.

Start with 40 grit and work upto 180-220 grit. This will show you where your flatness issues are.

Or take your true bar in and have the shop guy show you where the issues are. If they still won't grind them, find a new shop.

[vinman]

The other thing I do to help with base flatness is pressurize for 5-10 min before turning on the heat. My hypothesis is that this helps the epoxy flow and sort of self level so to speak before it starts to kick. I have no real data on this but my gut and results of current builds says this is right. Plus the shop that does my work gives me good feedback on how the flat the bases come out each time

[skimann20]

Hey gang just got back. They're not as bad as I thought. Absolutely savable! I'll take photos when I get home later tonight.

He said one thing that can cause the edge to flex in is how fast you heat them up and how slow you cool it. I think I might have cooled them to fast. I figured once the epoxy was cured it's set. Maybe not the case?

He also talked about stone grinding of old. I guess they use to be rock hard and you could do a ski in my shape very quickly.

I like the wooden dowel idea to start off with. My only concern with the belt sander is grooving the middle of the ski because its not wide enough to do the whole base the entire time.

Here is the link to the other guy that was having base problems:
viewtopic.php?t=2521&start=30&sid=a6504 ... a325ed1e01

[MadRussian]

If you can borrow somewhere phase converter welcome to use my base Sander

[MontuckyMadman]

Ur molds are not flat or you dont have a cattrack or you cooled under pressure or your rabbet for edge tooth was not deep enough or you over heated maybe but prolly one of theother issues . I have done them all.

[skimann20]

Thanks Madrussian if I see one on c-list (which i think i saw one) i'll take you up on that offer.

okay guys you be the judge.

these are before base grinding
Tip:


Middle:


tail:


my observation is that I'm base high this could be a thickness diffrence between the base and the edge thickness. I'll have to double check this. my second observation is that their is a small void between where the edge tines stop and the base. you can see it in the "middle photo running up the ski. not enough epoxy?

so I had to come up with a base grinder. I'm proud of this one. totally ghetto but I think it worked great!
Drill - bolt drilled into the end of dowel- 1.25" dowel - bearing caster for a chair hammered into the other end to act as a handle. Come one tell me this is great!



i started with 80grit then went to 100 then to 120 then wrapped 220 around a steel plate and smoothed it out.

Tip:


middle: (you can see how base high I am on the right side with a little on the left)


Tail:


I took my skis to a second store, kind of like when you need brain surgery and go to a second doctor to see his opinion. These guys were way more open to grinding them and for 60% less the cost of the other place. I'll take them back there tomorrow to have a go at it.

Also, I compared the flex of my skis to the other skis and i guess they're not that bad. I'm just use to super bomber. It will be interesting sking a ski that has so much flex.

I've also started preparing for round two. I cut out 2 more sets of cores and the uni-carbon will be here tomorrow. I went with 4.1 and 9.0oz. I have a set of cores from my first batch that are at 2-10.8-2 and I'm thinking about running 3" top and bottom of the 9.0oz unicarbon.

opinions are always welcome!

[skidesmond]

Love the base grinder! I love it when a complex machine is made into something so simple. The bases aren't too bad. A bit of a mystery as to why the went out of true. Totally ski-able though. Nice work.

[skimann20]

Love the base grinder! I love it when a complex machine is made into something so simple. The bases aren't too bad. A bit of a mystery as to why the went out of true. Totally ski-able though. Nice work.

Thanks. I curious if the base is out because of the following:
1.) too much heat to fast. My bottom blanket got to temp real quick and the top took much longer. (my cat track sucked up a lot of heat) I'm changing from an aluminum sheet above the top blanket to a lamboard to act as an insulation and I think i"m going to do a step up heating process.
2.) Pulled the ski out and it cooled to fast.
3.) pressed at 55-60psi. to much pressure.
4.) Dry spots in the fiber glass? When you wet out fiberglass, does it go all "clear" or are their "spots" that still remain somewhat "white".
5.) maybe the vinal tape i used to cover the base did something funky. I doubt this one.

Talked to the owner of the other ski shop today. He was stoked. He said that he'll have no problem getting them ski-able. And just by my story knew what the other shop that I was at. He also told be not to tune with my getto base grinder anymore, he keeps old belts for skis that need the surface knocked down like mine. I guess it pays to get a second opinion.

quick question: does anyone else top sheet wrinkle in the middle like that? I don't think I've seen that in any of the images on the build pages.