Eric's Boards

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EricW
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Post by EricW »

Twizz - It depends on what you mean by wasted effort. I think overall it'll make a better board that will last longer. A flat core pressed into a shape will always try to return to it's original shape. I want my boards original shape to have camber. My theory is that I can also build in more damping without loosing the pop. That will be a later experiment though.

Yeah I like the tail of my boards a bit stiffer anyway so I was already planning on making the core a little thicker there. Glad to see people confirming my thoughts though. :)
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MontuckyMadman
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Post by MontuckyMadman »

seriously though, cutting in the camber is a defunct science. Call the high end custom shops and ask if they do this, my guess would be 0.
Wagner, igneous, folsom.
The composite and resin structure is what hold this. When that fails so does your fancy planed in camber.
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EricW
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Post by EricW »

Coiler does it, at least I think he still does.

Jekul, thanks for the heads up on the screws.
doughboyshredder
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Post by doughboyshredder »

yep coiler still does it.

The way I understand it it's for damping. It reduces the amount of fibers that are running full length and theoretically reduces vibration that is transmitted through the entire board.

IMO it's completely unnecessary.
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a.badner
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Post by a.badner »

doughboyshredder wrote:
IMO
its nice to see you giving an "opinion" rather than a "shutdown" ;)

but true. cutting camber into the core wont give a big difference. its entirely up to the fiber glass and epoxy to keep the shape.

i dont understand why you are worried about camber, and not the tips.

i dont know what kind of board you are going to do, but the tips are probably one of the most important parts of the ski. too big of a curve and they will mess up your truing radius. and too small they will mess up your float on snow and slow you down.
doughboyshredder wrote:IMO
camber is not that important in powder, or in a park, or on bunny hills. i dont think that many people understand the concept of camber.

AND if youre sooooo worried about camber and its shape. dont bother pressing the skis. youre better off carving the skis out of a solid block of wood.

just sayin. no meaning to be rude, or childish ;)
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EricW
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Post by EricW »

the tips are probably one of the most important parts of the ski.
One thing at a time. No need to tackle every design issue in one night.
youre better off carving the skis out of a solid block of wood.
That's basically what I'm doing with a router bridge.
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a.badner
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Post by a.badner »

OK. i under stand what you are doing now.

meh still pointless. and it takes away the strength of the core. by doing that you are taking away 1/3 third of the vertical grains of the wood. which is its strongest part. i dont like the idea of that. but what ever floats you boat.

the only good thing i see from this is, that you cores can never mis-align horizontaly or verticaly.
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EricW
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Post by EricW »

I'm not convinced it significantly weakens the board. It would probably fail if it was flexed beyond it's design limits, like what happens if you auger it into the side of a tree at high speeds. In which case the board is probably the least of your worries.
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a.badner
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Post by a.badner »

do you like mythbusters?
i love mythbusters.
this myth actually has alot to do with what we are talking about.
watch this.
you will be amazed.
it is the same reason why maple much stronger than pine. it has longer fibers.


wait until they show the ice examples or skip through 30 seconds

once you watch it. read the following

ice has no polymeric fibers in it and there for its brittle.
the saw dust gives it short polymeric fiber and is less brittle but resilient.
but the new paper had extremely long fibers making almost impossible to break.

if your router out your cores your are SIGNIFICANTLY making the fibers shorter.
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EricW
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Post by EricW »

Ok, instead of having a big pissing contest, I'm just going with real world stuff. Bruce of Coiler Snowboards cuts the camber into his boards. He builds some of the most desired carving boards there are. I'm going to try it.

Maple is also hard and and far more dense than pine. I'm not convinced that maple has a longer grain structure than pine. I've been working with wood for a long time in one form or another. I understand fibers, cross cutting, density, flexibility or whatever. Five minutes of content on Mythbusters doesn't really sway me.

The problem with the Mythbusters example is that the pykrete is about 14% sawdust and wood pulp. Any fiber in that stuff is no more than 1/4" long. The rest is ice. Yes, there are some wood fibers in there but it's hardly a good comparison to solid wood. Even the newspaper example isn't a very good comparison.

Your point about fiber length, while intuitively seems true, isn't necessarily true. This isn't dated but I imagine it's accurate.

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fpltn/fpltn-095.pdf

There's so much more to a snowboard than stupid wood fibers that got cut short. It's not enough to matter. I'll probably 3 or 4 species of wood in my first board. I'm not worried about it being weak.
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a.badner
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Post by a.badner »

im not gonna stop you from trying this.

but consider

in a ski, the shorter fiber are not going to make it weaker, but softer.
to compensate for the "camber cut" youre gonna have to put in twice as much glass, and epoxy. costing you more money. call it one of youre "stupid taxes"
OAC
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Post by OAC »

What makes a ski/board? The wood core or the composites (fg and epoxi)?
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a.badner
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Post by a.badner »

might i add. that that document, is a government study. total bullshit. they from talking about width of fiber and correlating it to its length.

furthermore, they were talking about density of overlapping fibers.

just do an experiment.

go buy two 2x4. plane them down to 5mm. then using your router bridge cut out the camber, and then leave one unchanged. then flex them.

please tell me which one will flexes more, which one cracks more and then which one breaks first.
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EricW
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Post by EricW »

I think I've had enough. I don't mind, even enjoy people disagreeing with me or debating a certain method of construction or whatever. I take issue when someone calls me stupid. And that "stupid tax" comment qualifies. It seems pretty damn arrogant. You make it sound like I have no intelligence or experience in life.

Again, your example doesn't work. It assumes I have some super narrow core in the middle. What point are you trying to prove anyway? That my board will be weak or it won't be "as strong" as a flat blank? Are you just trying to win?
OAC
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Post by OAC »

e-fight! :D
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