In the press today - as Swiss as it gets :)

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pmg
Posts: 442
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:59 am
Location: Sonthofen

Re: In the press today - as Swiss as it gets :)

Post by pmg »

Hi,

just saw your questions. I re-built that ski since.

1) I didnt use any glass

2) I only used 300g/m² uni flax on top (right below the wooden veneer) as bcomp states

3) 300g/m² triax carbon as before

Result: Perfect! The single layer of flax on top is great, better dampening the very springy carbon.

For durability: The Swiss Ski still skis and skis, no delam, and the ski still skis good.

But: I think that 300g/m² carbon is way stiffer than 750g/m² glass. I never made skis with glass though and cant provide experience on that.

sami
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2020 11:42 pm

Re: In the press today - as Swiss as it gets :)

Post by sami »

Hi,

Great, many thanks! And good to hear the result was such a success. So did you get even better dampening with the top flax only (as BComp states), compared to one layer below and above the core?

Nice to hear also that your original Swiss Ski is in such a good shape.

Skibaumarkt indicates that 300g/m2 carbon would be approximately as stiff as 750g/m2 glass (they sell both), but that is probably just an approximate. I guess I'll just need to do some testing. In any case, I'm confident that I'll use the type of layup as you have in this version 2.

Best,
Sami
Last edited by sami on Tue May 05, 2020 3:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

pmg
Posts: 442
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:59 am
Location: Sonthofen

Re: In the press today - as Swiss as it gets :)

Post by pmg »

Hi,

yes, 300g/m² on top is superior to the 120g/m² on top and bottom. also way easier to work with. The 120g/m² is a PITA to lay up, the thicker one is much better to handle.

Aïdan
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:55 am

Re: In the press today - as Swiss as it gets :)

Post by Aïdan »

Hi,

I'm interested in your flax experience, can you detail your last built (core thickness, core composition and layup)

My first skis I built last summer were:
140_106_138mm for 174cm
Core: 1.8_9.8_2.4mm made of balsa: Bcomp xq (the stiffer they had at that time, I know it has changed recently)
black locust side walls

Layup

top: 0.6 wood venner
160g Kevlar/carbon (carbon on length direction and kevlar at 90°)
200g carbon biax
120g carbon UD
300g flax UD
core
300g flax UD
120g carbon UD
200g carbon biax
base

They ski very well (largest skis I ever skied so difficult to compare), have a super pop and hold hard snow pretty well even if vibrates quit a bit on icy messed up spring snow. They are aimed to be touring skis, a bit heavy (1625g/ski nude). I decided to put the flax directly on the core with the idea that it would provide a smoother transition from wood to layup (balsa is super soft), I didn't know about the Becomp recommendations to put flax at the exterior level.

My next pair will be 98 large and I want to try a lighter lay up in order to fit more reasonable touring skis specifications. Also I will built my own cores, paulownia, two strings of poplar and black locust side walls.

So yes I was wondering if I could go to:

top: 0.6 wood venner
350g biax flax
300g triax carbon
core
300g triax carbon
300g ud flax
base

thanks,

Aïdan

pmg
Posts: 442
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:59 am
Location: Sonthofen

Re: In the press today - as Swiss as it gets :)

Post by pmg »

Hi,

I cant recall the exact numbers, but the last one I built is pretty much this way:

130-88-118
2.5mm - 14mm - 2.5mm; mix of Poplar and Ash

0.? Wood veneer
300g/m² Uni Flax
300g/m² Triax Carbon
Wood Core
300g/m² triax Carbon

Definitely more than stiff enough with this setup, but I like em rather stiff

Aïdan
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:55 am

Re: In the press today - as Swiss as it gets :)

Post by Aïdan »

Thanks for the fast reply,

I can defenetly go lighter in the lay up.
An other thing I will try to achieve in the next built is to have much more flexible tips in order to absorb icy irregularitys we encounter a lot in touring skis, the main default of my first built is that: too stiff tips. To achieve that I will try pure cork tip spacers instead of several layer of veneer as I did (even if it looks great). Which means semi cap (can't have cork directly out). And have a lay up on the tips that has only 45° orientation, no 0°.

cheers

tried to add pics, don't know if they going to show
Attachments
tip building
tip building
tip buiding.jpg (149.75 KiB) Viewed 193 times
first grinding
first grinding
tip.jpg (77.55 KiB) Viewed 193 times
result
result
the skis.jpg (103.1 KiB) Viewed 193 times

SleepingAwake
Posts: 142
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:06 pm

Re: In the press today - as Swiss as it gets :)

Post by SleepingAwake »

Having the cork exposed isn't an issue. Have done that on my snowboard last year and it worked well.

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