Took them out for a run last night and a couple runs today. It was like skiing in s-l-o-w m-o-t-i-o-n. They tracked very nicely as I thought they would. But a p-tex base has it all over a wood base. Not really sure why they were so slow. I did pine tar, then hot waxed them w/ a paraffin wax, then rubbed on some wax for the day (red Toko). Snow conditions were packed powder. I asked some of the older ski instructors (FOGs) if they remember using pine tar. They said it was used for grip. YIKES! I don't want that! I read it was for sealing the wood. I think I'll strip the base down and go w/ just wax and see if that helps.
I think the all wood layup works fine (minus the wood base). Maybe go 2mm in the tip/tail section instead 3mm.
Before the season is out I'll make another pair but w/ p-tex base. I'll run some tests w/ poly-u glue, p-tex and wood veneer to see how well that bonds.
Section * - Going Old School Review
Moderators: Head Monkey, kelvin, bigKam, skidesmond, chrismp
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skidesmond
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doughboyshredder
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skidesmond
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That's what I was going to use. But I kept seeing in my web searches to use pine tar. Every reference to using pine tar was for cross country skiing however, didn't find anything for downhill. I think my old wood skis from the 60's had painted bottoms. Thought of using this paste wax I have for wood floors, has carnauba wax in it. I don't think it can make them any slower.
They came out too nice to give up on them just yet. I'll work on them tomorrow.
They came out too nice to give up on them just yet. I'll work on them tomorrow.
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skidesmond
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I just realized I posted this in the wrong place..... I meant to post it at "How did They work" Oh well.. I guess I can say anything now... 
btw- I stripped off the pine tar and wax to bare wood and sanded them clean. I did one ski base in parafin wax, the other in a paste wax called "Butcher Wax" for hardwood floors. I've had it for years.
I hot waxed 1 ski in the normal way. Then I used a heat gun to allow the wax to melt deep into the wood pours. Scraped the excess wax off in the usual manner.
The other ski I used the paste wax. Rubbed it on thick, used the heat gun so the wax would penetrate the wood. Then wiped it clean.
Let both skis cool outside. The I conducted an informal experiment. Took each ski outside in the yard and let them slide down the hill (about 30 feet or so) to see which one was faster. The Butcher wax ski won each time by a ski length (4 tests). Then I got cold and concluded the experiment
I cleaned the paraffin wax off the other ski and treated it with the Butchers wax. I'll give them another try Wednesday night.
btw- I stripped off the pine tar and wax to bare wood and sanded them clean. I did one ski base in parafin wax, the other in a paste wax called "Butcher Wax" for hardwood floors. I've had it for years.
I hot waxed 1 ski in the normal way. Then I used a heat gun to allow the wax to melt deep into the wood pours. Scraped the excess wax off in the usual manner.
The other ski I used the paste wax. Rubbed it on thick, used the heat gun so the wax would penetrate the wood. Then wiped it clean.
Let both skis cool outside. The I conducted an informal experiment. Took each ski outside in the yard and let them slide down the hill (about 30 feet or so) to see which one was faster. The Butcher wax ski won each time by a ski length (4 tests). Then I got cold and concluded the experiment
I cleaned the paraffin wax off the other ski and treated it with the Butchers wax. I'll give them another try Wednesday night.
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doughboyshredder
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skidesmond
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Thanks! While checking out the Japanese co. I found this one in Vt.
http://www.powderjets.com/
He makes wood snow boards as well with maple base. I'll see what I can get from the website. Might send him an email asking how he finishes the base. Can't hurt.
http://espn.go.com/action/snowboarding/ ... st/4937337
http://www.powderjets.com/
He makes wood snow boards as well with maple base. I'll see what I can get from the website. Might send him an email asking how he finishes the base. Can't hurt.
http://espn.go.com/action/snowboarding/ ... st/4937337
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skidesmond
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I contacted www.powderjets.com. They use epoxy on the base. They tried many other things including pine tar, poly, etc. and found epoxy worked the best. Many thanks to Jesse from powderjets!
Told him he should check out our forum.
I'll give that a try in the next few days or so.
Told him he should check out our forum.
I'll give that a try in the next few days or so.
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skidesmond
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I had a problem with the epoxy when I laminated. btw- I contacted QCM about the problem. They aren't sure why I had the problem. They did suggest warming the epoxy throughly which I didn't do, but have done in the past. If I hear anymore from QCM I'll post it.Brazen wrote:Didn't you have an issue with epoxy adhesion on this pair already? Or was that just the lamination?
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Eirik Hanes
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Hey,
I was on a presentation about ski history a couple of weeks ago (mainly cross country skis). One of the main things the presenter talked about was the evolution of base material (from the 1930 s until now). For the oldest all wooden skis, Ash was supposed to give the fastest skis. We even have a old saying here in Norway that say some thing like; you have to have ash skis to ski fast. But in the 60's some new base materials started to evolve. The presenter talked about something he called "wood plastic", which is wood impregnated with some resin. Apparently it's not possible to do this impregnation with that many types of wood. But American red oak is one of the woods one can use, and it is supposed to make a fairly good base material. They used it in competition skis before other plastic materials took over.
Just what I picked up, thought it might be interesting to you guys.
I was on a presentation about ski history a couple of weeks ago (mainly cross country skis). One of the main things the presenter talked about was the evolution of base material (from the 1930 s until now). For the oldest all wooden skis, Ash was supposed to give the fastest skis. We even have a old saying here in Norway that say some thing like; you have to have ash skis to ski fast. But in the 60's some new base materials started to evolve. The presenter talked about something he called "wood plastic", which is wood impregnated with some resin. Apparently it's not possible to do this impregnation with that many types of wood. But American red oak is one of the woods one can use, and it is supposed to make a fairly good base material. They used it in competition skis before other plastic materials took over.
Just what I picked up, thought it might be interesting to you guys.
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skidesmond
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Thanks. Oak has an open grain which is probably why it worked so well. I'll see if I can find anymore info on it.Eirik Hanes wrote:Hey,
I was on a presentation about ski history a couple of weeks ago (mainly cross country skis). One of the main things the presenter talked about was the evolution of base material (from the 1930 s until now). For the oldest all wooden skis, Ash was supposed to give the fastest skis. We even have a old saying here in Norway that say some thing like; you have to have ash skis to ski fast. But in the 60's some new base materials started to evolve. The presenter talked about something he called "wood plastic", which is wood impregnated with some resin. Apparently it's not possible to do this impregnation with that many types of wood. But American red oak is one of the woods one can use, and it is supposed to make a fairly good base material. They used it in competition skis before other plastic materials took over.
Just what I picked up, thought it might be interesting to you guys.
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skidesmond
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Quick update: I haven't tried the epoxy yet. I used the Butcher wax as a sealant and then waxed using Toko yellow on Saturday. The conditions were perfect for the wax I chose. The first run was great and I felt like I had the problem solved, the skis slid easily and smooth, much better than before. By the end of the first run one ski on the left foot on the inside was getting catchy/sticky in the tip area. Swapped the skis to the opposite feet for the second run. The skis ran fine in a straight line. But now the right ski was skiddish around the tip area when turning right. I could see the ski wander back and forth.
When I got to the bottom of the run I checked the base of the skis. The wax has worn off in 2 runs. Even the Butcher wax. I could see where the wood looked dry in the area around the tip and about 6-8 inches behind the running length. This explained the sticky/grabby feeling I experienced. Perhaps on a steep slope it wouldn't be too hard to deal with, but this was a groomed blue square trail.
So, what to do now. I may try to sand the remaining wax off and try sealing with epoxy and give it another go. An alternative, if it still can be found, is to use an ebonite sealer/lacquer. Another fellow ski instructor recalls his father using an ebonite lacquer when he was a kid (he's 61 now). He said it was like a paint-able plastic. When it dried you could wax over it. Sort of sounds like pine tar.....
Google searches of liquid ebonite didn't turn up anything useful. Perhaps this is the "wood plastic" Eirik Hanes mentioned.
No doubt epoxy will seal the base. But I'm a little concerned about the maintenance needed over time. I'll be able to re-seal the base with epoxy but a friend or costumer will not want to do that.
So I can see why P-tex came on the scene and has stayed.
When I got to the bottom of the run I checked the base of the skis. The wax has worn off in 2 runs. Even the Butcher wax. I could see where the wood looked dry in the area around the tip and about 6-8 inches behind the running length. This explained the sticky/grabby feeling I experienced. Perhaps on a steep slope it wouldn't be too hard to deal with, but this was a groomed blue square trail.
So, what to do now. I may try to sand the remaining wax off and try sealing with epoxy and give it another go. An alternative, if it still can be found, is to use an ebonite sealer/lacquer. Another fellow ski instructor recalls his father using an ebonite lacquer when he was a kid (he's 61 now). He said it was like a paint-able plastic. When it dried you could wax over it. Sort of sounds like pine tar.....
Google searches of liquid ebonite didn't turn up anything useful. Perhaps this is the "wood plastic" Eirik Hanes mentioned.
No doubt epoxy will seal the base. But I'm a little concerned about the maintenance needed over time. I'll be able to re-seal the base with epoxy but a friend or costumer will not want to do that.
So I can see why P-tex came on the scene and has stayed.
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skidesmond
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Another update...
Sometime in the fall I thoroughly sanded down the base and then applied epoxy to the base, then more or less forgot about them. The other day I saw them in the corner and decided try skiing them one last time. I sanded down the epoxy, finishing w/ 0000 steel wool. Then rubbed on Toko yellow wax, mounted bindings and took them for their final ride.
The epoxy seemed to do the trick! I took 2 runs and they had no problem sliding down the slope.
But, they are really to firm/hard to have fun on. I didn't sharpen the tail on one of the skis very well so it didn't want to hold on the loose granular/hard pack very well. The other ski held ok. If the core was 6-7mm I think it would have been much better/flexible ski.
So it you're think about an all-wood ski go for it. If you're being nostalgic and want a wood base, apply epoxy to it, otherwise go for the p-tex base.
Time to retire these, for a new life as a ski chair
Sometime in the fall I thoroughly sanded down the base and then applied epoxy to the base, then more or less forgot about them. The other day I saw them in the corner and decided try skiing them one last time. I sanded down the epoxy, finishing w/ 0000 steel wool. Then rubbed on Toko yellow wax, mounted bindings and took them for their final ride.
The epoxy seemed to do the trick! I took 2 runs and they had no problem sliding down the slope.
But, they are really to firm/hard to have fun on. I didn't sharpen the tail on one of the skis very well so it didn't want to hold on the loose granular/hard pack very well. The other ski held ok. If the core was 6-7mm I think it would have been much better/flexible ski.
So it you're think about an all-wood ski go for it. If you're being nostalgic and want a wood base, apply epoxy to it, otherwise go for the p-tex base.
Time to retire these, for a new life as a ski chair